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jgoggi

Ryanair pax configuration wrong

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Hi, I have (re) downloaded the -800 WL Ryanair repaint (EI-EFY) through the OC, but I see that there are mistakes in the configuration, such as the analog standby instruments (that can be easily changed into ISFD), but above all the pax number, that is 174 while the real one is 189. In the aircraft.cfg file I read 189 anyway, why does the FMC say 174? Is there a way to change it to 189? Thanks.

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why does the FMC say 174? Is there a way to change it to 189?

 

Because we can't actually model the right weight stations for the literal unlimited amount of configurations that could be possible out there. It can't be changed. Weight is weight. Just set an equivalent ZFW.

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Is there a way to change it to 189? Thanks.

No. If you want to carry the equivalent of 189 pax, just increase your cargo weight by what an additional 15 pax plus baggage would weigh.

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No. If you want to carry the equivalent of 189 pax, just increase your cargo weight by what an additional 15 pax plus baggage would weigh.

 

Just set the ZFW to whatever you want.  The airplane does not care if it's passengers or cargo.

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Just set the ZFW to whatever you want.  The airplane does not care if it's passengers or cargo.

How do you do this? Is it in the aircraft cfg if so what line?

 

Where can accurate ZFW info be found for specific airlines?

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Where can accurate ZFW info be found for specific airlines?

http://all-aero.com/index.php/component/content/article/66-landing-pages/bars-landing/12157-bars-aircraft-b  

might  be  some info  you can find in here

 

 

I use pfpx  and  other flight planners will be  the same  it will tell you  the zfw  as well   that you enter in the fmc

 

How do you do this? Is it in the aircraft cfg if so what line?

 

You set this in the fmc  set up, in the perf page  I believe   going  by memory here  and on the right hand side  line 2  I think

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Perhaps some clarification of what ZFW is, is relevant here. Zero Fuel Weight is a combination of Operating Empty Weight (OEW) and the Payload (Passengers and Freight/Cargo/Bags) before usable fuel is added to the aircraft to make the Ramp Weight. Boeing defines OEW as the manufacturers empty weight plus standard and operational items [Boeing Startup Glossary]. Standard and operational items include such things as unusable fuel and other unusable fluids (i.e. fuel that can't be burnt due to pump location) engine oil, toilet chemicals, emergency equipment, crew and baggage, navigational material and manuals and essentially anything else the airline chooses to add as a standard part and common to every flight (standard catering, galley equipment, etc.)

 

As such ZFW varies from sector to sector, however Boeing have a Maximum Zero Fuel Weight as listed in FCOM 1 Limitations, using the 737-800 for the example, of 61,688kg/136,000lbs. So as long as your ZFW is equal to or less than those figures you're not exceeding any weight limitations. If you go to the CDU and completely unload the aircraft of payload (freight/passengers) and fuel you get a figure of roughly 41,400kg or 91,300lbs. The actual figure for a real Ryanair aircraft may be different depending on what they determine to be Standard and Operational Items. As you're not able to adjust this figure (without breaching the EULA) this is the only figure you can really work with. If you take the MZFW from the OEW it gives you a useful payload of 20,288kg/44,700lbs which can be made up of either passengers or cargo (which is why Joe said you can just enter a ZFW as the aircraft does not care if it's passengers or cargo).

 

For entry into the aircraft, it's simply a matter of heading to the CDU main menu --> FS Actions --> Payload and on the right hand side, second from the top is an option to insert a ZFW instead of manually setting the passengers and cargo load.

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Because we can't actually model the right weight stations for the literal unlimited amount of configurations that could be possible out there. It can't be changed. Weight is weight. Just set an equivalent ZFW.

 

Hello!

 

I came across this topic when I installed EI-EFY and noticed that the PAX number is wrong.

 

Can PMDG please correct this mistake?

 

I am not talking about every amout of configuration in the world but just for EI-EFY.

Operations Center is telling me that the configuration for this A/C is according to the real one but it is not.

 

 

Happy new year!

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Did you read any of the other posts in this thread? Weight is weight. Just enter a ZFW

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Can PMDG please correct this mistake?

 

This isn't a mistake though. As Richie mentioned, it would be a good idea to have a review of the posts. We had to choose a pretty representative example layout for the plane because every airline has its own seat config. In fact, many of those airlines have several seat configs even within a particular aircraft type. United, as an example, has 5 for the 777-200 alone. The number that we set as a "max" number of passengers is only a basic representation anyway, as weight is weight. You could strap lead weights on the floor in various configs and the aircraft would behave the same way that it would with passengers in similar spots. In other words, as long as the CG is the same, it doesn't matter if you have billions of feathers to give you a payload of 15000 pounds, or a bunch of people to give you a payload of 15000 pounds. The plane handles it all the same.

 

As Richie mentioned, simply set a ZFW. I'm assuming you're using some sort of planner like SimBrief or PFPX. Have it set your passenger load and then just use the ZFW off of the load sheet to set the Payload page. The passenger numbers may be different, but the overall weight will be the same, and that's what matters.

 

 

 

As I'm sure you're still thinking "but I want my passenger config to be X," I'll explain a bit more. I can somewhat understand the sentiment, but that would require us to set up the aircraft for every config out there (and they usually change a bit over time as the industry changes), or allow others to modify it somehow, but such modifications could have massive negative impacts on the flight model to the point where it wouldn't even fly properly. As such, to avoid adding unnecessary externalities affecting the flight model, an average config has been provided. For those who need to simulate outside those bounds, simply use ZFW. Weight is weight.

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Hi James,

As Kyle has outlined in the previous messages pax=weight this is true for pmdg ngx or also for a professional "full motion" level D B737NG simulator...( A pax cabin doesn't exist also into a professional simulator)

 

As "rule of thumbs" considering 189 pax weight is very simple....as DOW you could consider 42 tons (I know that the "real" RYR Sops uses this number for a "thumb verify" of loadsheet) plus i.e. weight of pax + hand luggages + luggages into the bays...(i.e. RYR= 8 kg hand luggage+15 kg cargo luggage per pax)...very simple..assuming about 100 kg of "total weight" (pax+cargo) per person and multypling it by 189 you got: 189*100= 18,9 tons of payload+42 tons of DOW= 60,9 ton of total weight.

Happy New Year to everyone in this forum!

 

Ciao

Andrea Buono

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Thank you guys for your answers.

Didn't know that it's not that easy for PMDG to change the number of max. PAX.

 

I was just confused as the OC tells me "livery has fully accurate and verified airline options configuration included" and when I read this I didn't assume to have to make a little work around by myself to get the correct weight because Kyle: I'm assuming you're using some sort of planner like SimBrief or PFPX. is right with his assumption.

 

Not a big deal though :wink:

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I was just confused as the OC tells me "livery has fully accurate and verified airline options configuration included" and when I read this I didn't assume to have to make a little work around by myself to get the correct weight

 

Yeah. It is fully accurate and verified up front, where your true responsibilities lie. When you're on the PERF INIT page of the CDU as a real pilot, are you hand entering who is where, or are you entering a ZFW?

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I wonder if in future PMDG should just leave out actual passenger count and only provide ZFW as the appropriate option. Would prevent misunderstandings such as these. (or as a compromise, pax weight + baggage weight + cargo weight, which ends up dumped in the ZFW field on the FMC. No practical purpose, but would keep them happy..) Let PFPX et al work out how much each pax weighs...

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You should notice a difference between setting passengers and cargo manually rather than a zfw entry because of the areas on the airplane each load is positioned. More main deck weight compared to in the cargo holds changes cg% right?

 

About the panel layout accuracy I find the repaints in the library from Christian Mohr are accurate for each registration. - David Lee

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You should notice a difference between setting passengers and cargo manually rather than a zfw entry because of the areas on the airplane each load is positioned. More main deck weight compared to in the cargo holds changes cg% right?

 

About the panel layout accuracy I find the repaints in the library from Christian Mohr are accurate for each registration. - David Lee

 

I think on the real plane, yes, this may be so, but in FSX / P3D they probably are restricted to a limited number of load stations close to the centerline and waterline of the plane, and changes of a meter or two vertically won't really do much. CG is more affected by forward / aft rather than up / down, at least for planes this size.

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