Hello all,

I'm not a regular poster at AVSIM, tough I'm a usual follower of the main topics around flightsim here,

 

 

I have finished a method and software, to update on a regular basis the worldwide navigation data from Prepar3D (and also FSX), which overcomes the issue reported by many users that the flighsim is pretty much outdated nowadays. It took some time to develop and now is in the latest steps of testing and product development. So far, the method is feasible and running pretty well and I think now is possible to commercialize it.

 

 

Nevertheless, I would like to discuss from the technical point of view, comments from other users about ideas / compatibility issues that may arise, especially since this a is complex topic  because of all the technical hurdles to overcome.

 

 

About the product; basically, the solution process the Navigraph source data, and converts in an automatic way the data to a format compatible with P3D/FSX. The idea is that this is done at developer before an AIRAC is release, and delivery to the users at each monthly release date. The navigation data that has been tested so far is:

 

Airways, Enroute VORs, NDBs, Waypoints, terminal Navaids, Magnetic variation, TACANs, Navaid frequencies, IAPS, SIDs, STARs. ILSs are not included yet.

 

Besides, an interesting outcome that came from the development is the fact that it is compatible and works with the feature provided by LM on their GPS units since several time but could not be tested so far, where SIDs and STARs can be loaded and followed.

 

 

To the administrators: let me know if this is the right forum, or it has to be moved elsewhere. I have set a showcase page where there is more info about the solution and product. Again, don't know if this can be publish here; if not remove the link, please.

 

http://www.fsaerodata.com

 

Cheers,

 

 

Fascinating

 

Do you think ILS's will be possible to update eventually?

 

Now we just need someone to batch process some ADEX files and update the airports with runways etc

Been using this forever. http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html

It seems like a worthy project, HOWEVER, as Bobsk8 mentioned, Hervé Sors has been providing a monthly update service (AIRAC based) for quite some time. His updates modify worldwide VORs and NDBs, as well as magnetic variation, which is brought up to the latest 2015 model. This works in both FSX and P3D and is accomplished with a single installer.

 

Hervé also provides monthly updates of worldwide ILS data, split into regions.

 

The update service is free - though Hervé does appreciate and accept donations from those who use his service on a regular basis.

 

Your proposal would seem to do the same thing, with the additional feature of updating default FSX/P3D waypoints, airways and SID/STARS. This would mainly be of use for those who use the default GPS for navigation.

 

In my own case, almost all of the aircraft I fly in P3D use FMS systems which ignore the default airways and waypoints - these aircraft take current airways, waypoints and SID/STARS from the monthly Navigraph update service so the only updates to default nav data that matter to me are the VORs, NDBs and ILSs which are already addressed by Hervé.

 

I do fly some GA aircraft using the F1 GTN-750, which uses its own (Garmin) database for airways, waypoints and procedures - though admittedly, that database is now a few months old. However, the F1 GTN (as far as I am aware) is not able to use default FSX/P3D nav data - (other than VORs and NDBs).

 

I guess you would have to determine if there is a big enough market to make your project commercially viable - as the only customers who really need updates to the default FSX/P3D airways and waypoints are those who do not fly third-party FMS-equipped add-ons, but rely only on the default GPS.

While most users of Prepar3D won't care, I will point out that the use of Navigraph's data can't be used for training platforms... so this approach can't be used on actual trainers. Hopefully that will adjust the cost to most of you who are interested in this a bit.

 

It will also be interesting how the SID/STAR update works, since the core sim doesn't support all the different waypoint types defined for procedures.

 

So... good luck! Will be interesting to keep an eye on this.

I never used Navigraph & Co so far, but here's a question. These approaches (the one named above as the freeware one named later) update VORs, ILSs, SIDs etc. I never read about an upgrade of actual runways/taxiways. How does this fit? Just in case a runway has been closed between 2006 and now and another one has been opened, the ILS supposedly will point to the new one, while the simulator runway is still in the old place? Does this make sense?

 

Or, is this a stupid question?

 

Thanks and kind regards,

Michael

ILS frequencies and other minor data can be included indeed.

i see all this navigation stuff more like a framework or additional layer on the flightsim environment; having it updated, could serve developers to work on optimizations of areas like ATC, flight planning, flight maps, AI, GPS or FMS units,  that due to the obsolescence of the original navigation data, was not worth the effort. Let's see how it develops

When compiling the approaches to P3D, the only issue I had with the compiler was with the formatting of RF legs, which actually are not hard-coded in the simulator. I have to check how many airports were affected. Probably they can be adapted somehow so can be "simulated" by flightsim.

Interesting indeed, speaking as someone who has updated the uk airspace I can appreciate the work behind this, will be watching with interest! k

I never used Navigraph & Co so far, but here's a question. These approaches (the one named above as the freeware one named later) update VORs, ILSs, SIDs etc. I never read about an upgrade of actual runways/taxiways. How does this fit? Just in case a runway has been closed between 2006 and now and another one has been opened, the ILS supposedly will point to the new one, while the simulator runway is still in the old place? Does this make sense?

 

Or, is this a stupid question?

 

Thanks and kind regards,

Michael

Updating of aircraft runways - lengthening, shortening, adding or deleting - can only be done on an airport-by-airport basis using scenery design tools. For most users, that means purchasing a commercial airport scenery package, although there are many excellent freeware airport scenery updates that can be downloaded from Avsim's library, or from other flight sim web sites.

 

I believe that the ILS updates provided by Hervé Sors will update the painted runway numbers on the visual thresholds for those airports that have re-numbered their existing runways - but it will not create a new runway where one does not already exist in the default FSX/P3D world, nor will it activate an ILS localizer or glideslope if there is no physical runway to attach it to in the existing scenery.

If your project comes to market, I will certainly give it a shot. I'm a regular user of Herve Sors updates, but Im always open to the idea of a new solution!

I believe that the ILS updates provided by Hervé Sors will update the painted runway numbers on the visual thresholds for those airports that have re-numbered their existing runways - but it will not create a new runway where one does not already exist in the default FSX/P3D world, nor will it activate an ILS localizer or glideslope if there is no physical runway to attach it to in the existing scenery.

That would make sense. Same would go for SIDs and STARs (VORs?) where the airport layout changed. Of course I can buy or download addon-airports (and already own quite a number including the complete ORBX range), but compared to the numer of all airports in FSX/P3D they still are a negligible portion.

 

Kind regards, Michael

I have finished a method and software, to update on a regular basis the worldwide navigation data from Prepar3D (and also FSX), which overcomes the issue reported by many users that the flighsim is pretty much outdated nowadays.

 

Will your solution be able to update the simulator navigation data even after Orbx products like FTX Global, Vector and openLC are installed?

 

I am asking this because of this problem that I have with the solution provided by Hervé Sors: http://www.avsim.com/topic/481971-update-of-magnetic-variation-and-navaids-not-effective/

Jose,

 

Updating the runway numbers as mentioned by Jim, would be an excellent feature. Given there are about 50000 runways, that would not be feasible to do manually. How will that be handled?

 

What about runways that have been physically re-aligned? I would guess that number would be considerably lower. Do the data allow these runways to be identified so they could be adjusted?

 

What would be the effect on a user approaching runway 16 in the sim whose number has become 17 due to magnetic variation? So you would have runway 16 with a heading of 172, for example. I am guessing that given the true heading hasn't changed, it will be a visual conflict only. Please forgive my ignorance, but if I don't ask, I don't learn.

 

Will the product allow for a backup of existing data before an update?

 

Thank you and will be watching your progress.

Keep in mind that most NDBs are decommissioned and VORs are set to be decommissioned in a couple years IIRC. It's gonna be all waypoint RNAV/GPS navigation soon, as it kinda already is anyhow. So people concerned with radio navigation will need to accept that these things won't exist soon. Updates to a sim will need to focus on waypoints and virtual GPS plots that you can enter into a GPS/FMC. ILS will likely remain for obvious reasons. Remains to be seen though. A lot of VORs are inactive already and haven't been working for years despite showing on charts.

 

This is US info btw. Can't speak to the other countries.

Keep in mind that most NDBs are decommissioned and VORs are set to be decommissioned in a couple years IIRC

 

Probably not so soon and not to this extent. There is at this time 1130 active VOR, VORDME, DME & TACANs in the US. A few (around 10) are already in a shutdown status. Indeed, many will also been decommissioned starting in 2020 but only a very few since then. See here

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/November/24/FAA-begins-decommissioning-VORs

Also, around 5-10 NDBs are decommissioned each month but there's still around 1070 active NDBs in the US, among which 35-40 only are in a shutdown status..so most are not yet decommissioned and will probably not be in the next few years. Still some room for conventional radionavigation

 

Hervé