HDR really sucks sorry...  it wrecks the colors by oversaturating the color contrast... even with the adjustable sliders.  It's like those new flatscreen TV's...   people just love those vibrant colors some of the models present - it's too vibrant though - it's oversaturated fake.

 

And an Orbx Dev was just suggesting the exact opposite of this ... the color needed more saturation.

 

I think it's:

1.  A monitor quality issue (and/or monitor settings)

2.  Cable issue (HDMI 2.0, DVI-D vs DVI-I, older DisplayPort)

3.  NCP ... not getting full color range

 

I personally have no issues with the color and/or getting the correct color balance.  But because opinions are so widely opposite then I'm going to suggest it's NOT P3D but something from above list.

 

Cheers, Rob.

And an Orbx Dev was just suggesting the exact opposite of this ... the color needed more saturation.

 

I think it's:

1. A monitor quality issue (and/or monitor settings)

2. Cable issue (HDMI 2.0, DVI-D vs DVI-I, older DisplayPort)

3. NCP ... not getting full color range

 

I personally have no issues with the color and/or getting the correct color balance. But because opinions are so widely opposite then I'm going to suggest it's NOT P3D but something from above list.

 

Cheers, Rob.

LOL Exactly what I said: the colors look more vibrant, more saturated, without HDR on my PC! So yes, it really is a matter of 1, 2 and/or 3. (IMHO specially the settings part of 1: monitor settings but also calibration.) But no matter what, I am in the middle of my first complete flight with HDR off and I feel stupid for not doing this earlier. The colors look better (IMHO because it's very subjective), no more bleaching (if that is the right word) of colors and hence also a sharper image, no more problems with bloom getting stuck (which annoyed me more than I realized)... I like it.

It's an interesting discussion, and I actually find it quite surprising to see such a variety of views on what a realistic depiction of RW lighting and color should be...

 

To me, by far the biggest issue with P3D's HDR implementation is the "auto-exposure" behavior, which tends to mimic a digital still camera more than the human eye. If you look at your plane in a top-down view when flying over the sea (or, for instance, look to the side while banking so that you only have the sea and a bit of your wing in view), then the entire scene will become overexposed to the extreme. Another problem with this behavior is that it makes dark panels/cockpits difficult to use as the view will again become badly overexposed if you look down to check your avionics, etc. I guess capping the maximum exposure would get rid of that, but I don't have the skill to dig into the shader code, so I can only hope a solution comes from LM. It's not that pronounced in the morning/evening, but can be quite annoying during the day.

 

Nevertheless, I fly with HDR enabled simply because non-HDR brightness is waaaay off, especially in the morning/evening, causing the world to become dark while the sun is already/still quite high. I tested with various sky texture themes, comparing this to the real world outside, and HDR gets MUCH closer to correct lighting at these times. Also, things like sunlight on the panel when the sun is low, etc., simply do not have the same impact without HDR.

 

I've tried a variety of other ways to improve lighting, including a number of SweetFX/Reshade presets from people who have spent a lot of time refining them, but I always go back to HDR. Of course, I have toned the bloom down substantially, as I agree with Rob Y. it's a cheap and badly overused effect, I've set HDR_BLOOM_BLUR_SIGMA=1.300000 to avoid some of the overexposure. I also set TONEMAP_NIGHT_EXPOSURE_KEY=0.070000, which gives me really nice dark nights.

 

Just my two cents... :wink:

 

BTW, regarding the issue shown in Ryan's 4th picture (some bezels becoming uniform in color and losing 3D appearance), I get this with panel lighting ON in any case, HDR or no HDR. The only exception is when there's direct sunlight falling on the specific bezel).

 

Tym

My monitor is fine... Maybe I should have used the word washed out/faded on my initial post. To my eyes the darks become too bold.

 

But HDR does blow the highlights and the transition time (which I think is still editable) is far too slow to go from dark to light.

 

Anyway it's clear enabling HDR doesn't do well with many addons' textures. Especially glass cockpits. There's a post in the ss forum from yesterday that shows how terrible cockpits look with it on ugh if I had that much bloom and junk in a real plane I'd probably go blind.

This thread has made me question the use of HDR so off I toddle and check it out. HDR on,(my usual setting)looks nice. I don't see the issues you guys are talking about. HDR off, looks nice. I don't see the issues you guys are talking about. I'm danged if I can see any difference worth doodly squit. I'll leave it on. :smile:

And an Orbx Dev was just suggesting the exact opposite of this ... the color needed more saturation.

 

I think it's:

1.  A monitor quality issue (and/or monitor settings)

2.  Cable issue (HDMI 2.0, DVI-D vs DVI-I, older DisplayPort)

3.  NCP ... not getting full color range

 

I personally have no issues with the color and/or getting the correct color balance.  But because opinions are so widely opposite then I'm going to suggest it's NOT P3D but something from above list.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

Hi Rob,

 

That Orbx dev comment was no doubt related to scenery. On that count, as I said previously, discerning amounts of HDR can improve things. But it plays havoc with internal images. It literally wipes out the clarity of gauges and imposes a hideous wash over what otherwise were painstakingly designed borders and lighting effects. Until sims can apply different levels of HDR and bloom according to the object they are dealing with, we have to accept an overall regime. But even with scenery, the average HDR videos coming on line now are a travesty of the real world.

 

They might appear to be a temporary relief but in the end they are no different from those ghastly over-HDR'd photos you see - far too much of the wrong type of saturation, bloom flying out of every border, over-contrasted hues that are miles away from actual contrast levels and a kind of superficial fool's gold that cheapen the image.

 

I think half the problem is over-use, and far too high levels. If things were more subtle, the effect might be beneficial.

 

I can see the enthusiasm for it, because it offers something different from the rather one-dimensional capture of light on most monitors, but after a while it can become very tiring on the eyes.

 

Personal view, as always! 

boy oh boy.. do I smell a comparison video side by side coming   ... where the hell is my orville redenbacher's ?

 

 

But it plays havoc with internal images. It literally wipes out the clarity of gauges and imposes a hideous wash over what otherwise were painstakingly designed borders and lighting effects. Until sims can apply different levels of HDR and bloom according to the object they are dealing with

 

I think it's the bloom you don't like, and I tend to agree ... HDR and bloom are not the same process but are associated, as I understand it LM are still using the Bloom system left over from the FSX DX10 Preview.  

 

Bloom is enabled when HDR is enabled ... to quote a source "The alpha channel of an emissive map, when HDR/Boom is on and emissive bloom is enabled, is used to scale the intensity of your emissive color."  So if I understand correctly (and it's very possible I may not), but you should be able to control this somewhat.

 

Are you on the LM Beta team Robert?  PM me.

 

Cheers, Rob.

I think it's the bloom you don't like, and I tend to agree ... HDR and bloom are not the same process but are associated, as I understand it LM are still using the Bloom system left over from the FSX DX10 Preview.  

 

Bloom is enabled when HDR is enabled ... to quote a source "The alpha channel of an emissive map, when HDR/Boom is on and emissive bloom is enabled, is used to scale the intensity of your emissive color."  So if I understand correctly (and it's very possible I may not), but you should be able to control this somewhat.

 

Are you on the LM Beta team Robert?  PM me.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

Hi Rob,

 

Yes it's true. It's the bloom that ruins the gauges. I'm fine with HDR itself, although it is of course a matter of personal taste how much is used. I'll PM you Rob. Thanks very much!

Maybe that's why I don't have a problem. My bloom is 0.20

If you're an Nvidia user and you use a TV for display it may  have limited color range by default. I know a lot of guys are using HD/4K tv's It may be why some people see different results.

 

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=1E89A24EA589A628!400&authkey=!AGkzMzKjXr7uu-k&v=3&ithint=photo%2cJPG

 

 

I know a lot of guys are using HD/4K tv's It may be why some people see different results.

 

Good point, one should read monitor specs closely ... even if NCP is set to full range the monitor may not be capable.

 

Cheers, Rob.

The bloom indeed is the main issue: in the past I tried lowering the effect but I didn't manage to turn it off on its own, not even with the lowest bloom setting in the option screen. You can only disable bloom completely by disabling HDR.

 

The automatic light and dark effect that you get when looking around (making for instance a dark VC look a bit less dark while making the sky too bright at the same time) also is a problem because the HDR effect can sometimes get stuck: it doesn't reset until you look at something light that fills the entire screen. The HDR effect obviously isn't clever enough to figure out where you are actually looking but simply looks at how many dark and light spots there are on screen and that simply is a too limited way of doing things. Hence I doubt if HDR in games and sims will ever be able to simulate 'real world eye behavior'. it will always be an effect. 

 

Effects will always be a trade off of course. Some people like them and some won't. Some people who hate HDR and bloom love lens glare which of course is a totally unrealistic effect (because it doesn't simulate a real world phenomenon but what is in fact an unwanted camera lens side effect). A lot of people mistake what they see in movies with real life.  :wink: A lot (if not most) of 'next gen' games don't look realistic: they look like movies. Which is something completely different.

It is interesting to see such a disparity in viewpoints of HDR on or off.

(not inferring the any ones viewpoint is wrong)

On my HD TV, I can adjust HDR to look almost like HDR off, but I can't adjust from the other direction without wrecking color calibration.

I do like HDR better than HDR off though.  

Hm, I suddenly noticed (odd that I didn't notice that before) that the VC shadows (of knobs etc.) are baked in and not real time. Pity. I checked and noticed other planes do have real time shadows for knobs and switches. Annoying thing is that now I have noticed this, I keep on noticing it... :wink: Any change that real time shadows might be enabled sometime in the future (and those baked in shadows will be removed)? Once you see it it sort of spoils the immersion and realism. :wink: