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News on DTG Simulator is coming soon!

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II read, with dispair, how elitist we have become, when I see all the postings of how terrible & what garbage default aircraft are claimed to be.

 

Have we forgotten how we all began at the very beginning when we loaded up the sim for the very first time & flew our very first flight? Payware & PMDG came much later.

 

It could be great if DTG could release a product that brought that wonder back again, instead of probably targeting the well established, probably cynical simmer.

 

We need new blood more than we need a new sim. A new nursery for simmers & developers as it is pretty obvious that our hobby is stagnating, with no real exciting interest for any attractions to interest anyone to join this hobby of ours. No one has said what we need to expand our hobby, just what we want to take us current users to what we want.

 

New simmers, amongst then will be new developers, are far more important than, dare I say it, 64bit & DX12!

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Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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II read, with despair, how elitist we have become, when I see all the postings of how terrible & what garbage default aircraft are claimed to be.

You are braver than me, in pointing that out. And I agree.

 

Have we forgotten how we all began at the very beginning when we loaded up the sim for the very first time & flew our very first flight?

 

Yes, apparently.

 

We need new blood more than we need a new sim. A new nursery for simmers & developers as it is pretty obvious that our hobby is stagnating, with no real exciting interest for any attractions to interest anyone to join this hobby of ours. No one has said what we need to expand our hobby, just what we want to take us current users to what we want.

 

And that happens a lot. One of the things we may have forgotten was the flood of new people who arrived when FLIGHT was released, though it was noted at the time. There were also the dire concerns once that the release of X-plane on Steam would perhaps bring in hordes of the unwashed masses to "whine" about making things more friendly and to ask "stupid" questions.

 

Instead, I think we desperately need that influx of new blood to help break up tendencies toward group-think, lest we become completely parochial in our outlook on simulation.


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Robin, I agree with you totally - many simmers these days are in a state of permanent one-up-manship, dissing freeware offerings that would have been gratefully accepted just a few years ago because it doesn't compare well with payware selling for 70+ bucks...

 

Cynical indeed.

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How empty our hobby will be without the likes of Milton, our very own Sascha, Garry & Ed, Ito, our Italian friends, who's name escapes me, Ted Cook, Bill & Lynn Lyons, Francois, the list of dedicated freeware developers goes on, far too many to list here, most whom I've thanked & correspond with. These are the folk that have made our hobby so exiting. They all started off playing with garbage default aircraft. These are the guys I support,for their time, effort & patience (with us), making our hobby such fun.

In my opinion, this is what a hobby is all about, not bragging about our kit, how many frames I get, & what I want from anyone!

That is why basics are so important. The roots & seeds of our hobby. Thank you all.

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Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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Wobbie, great post, i think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head for me.

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How empty our hobby will be without the likes of Milton, our very own Sascha, Garry & Ed, Ito, our Italian friends, who's name escapes me, Ted Cook, Bill & Lynn Lyons, Francois, the list of dedicated freeware developers goes on, far too many to list here, most whom I've thanked & correspond with. These are the folk that have made our hobby so exiting. They all started off playing with garbage default aircraft. These are the guys I support,for their time, effort & patience (with us), making our hobby such fun.

In my opinion, this is what a hobby is all about, not bragging about our kit, how many frames I get, & what I want from anyone!

That is why basics are so important. The roots & seeds of our hobby. Thank you all.

 

:applause:

 

Indeed! I find far too many users who proclaim the best flight simulation experience is only achieved through a certain flight simulator and a certain set of addons, and that everything is inferior or dumbed down. Where would we be if this attitude was prevalent through the entire community from the beginning?

 

Nobody would have given FSX a chance when it was new. We would all still be using FS9. Freeware developers wouldn't have bothered if everyone only cared about study-level simulation. Even Prepar3D wouldn't have taken off if it wasn't for the multitude of freeware and payware catalog that was developed for FSX.

 

Forward progress in this community is only possible with an open mind to the new. That's why I'm excited about the prospects of a new flight simulator from DTG. If they can manage to avoid Microsoft's attitude of being out of touch with the community and avoid the mistakes they made with Flight, then they have a real case here. Let's at least hear their pitch before we make our judgements.

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Forward progress in this community is only possible with an open mind to the new.

 

By the way.........  :wink: http://www.avsim.com/videos/view-424-outerra-becomes-moody/


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Almost never post...only read usually.

 

Some rather embarrassing behavior on this thread.

 

Put yourself in check and take a deep breath of reality.  $50.00 piece of flight simulation will not be a CAE CAT D simulator.  Oddly enough, in some ways it will actually be better.  Those of us you have actually gone through 20 hours in a sweat box know what I'm referring to.  It will be for the home user looking at a single 17" screen with medium to high computer specs.  Have fun with it....remember those days when it was fun?  Think of the designer who thought of the little things that will make the DTG simulator unique.  Think of the large amount of new young people it will bring into the hobby.  Think of all the post release excitement and chatter on AVSIM...many of us will be right here talking about the goods and bads.  That is what the hobby is about.

 

Have fun with whatever they're up to.

 

Shinny side up.

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II read, with dispair, how elitist we have become, when I see all the postings of how terrible & what garbage default aircraft are claimed to be.

 

Have we forgotten how we all began at the very beginning when we loaded up the sim for the very first time & flew our very first flight? Payware & PMDG came much later.

 

It could be great if DTG could release a product that brought that wonder back again, instead of probably targeting the well established, probably cynical simmer.

 

We need new blood more than we need a new sim. A new nursery for simmers & developers as it is pretty obvious that our hobby is stagnating, with no real exciting interest for any attractions to interest anyone to join this hobby of ours. No one has said what we need to expand our hobby, just what we want to take us current users to what we want.

 

New simmers, amongst then will be new developers, are far more important than, dare I say it, 64bit & DX12!

 

 

If I read this correctly then I'm an "elitist".  Nice pejorative.  If I installed Windows 95 onto an old 486DX66 and gave it someone who owns a modern machine, which would they use more?  Their current modern computer or the old one?  If I gave someone with a 60" HDTV an old 19" SDTV, which would they turn on more?  If I gave someone a flip-phone when they own a new smartphone, which would they use more??  How about I install vanilla FS2000 on a computer with FSX or P3D with add ons.  Do you think the FS2000 will get more play time? 

 

And payware didn't come much later.  I bought MSFS 2002 and within a few short months bought the Dreamfleet 734 and PSS Airbus package.  I've been running payware and freeware ever since. 

 

I think you're forgetting the big picture.  Civil aviation with regards to simulation is boring.  Us elitist types enjoy it because we can emulate some real world procedures and flights, but most common folk aren't interested in slowly flying around the sky.  As my point with regards to MS Flight and FSX missions.  Sure those missions are interesting/fun to an extent, but they are a novelty.  If MS Flight was successful, they'd kept it alive.  It wasn't, they lost money and therefore closed the whole project.  MS assumed that people were on board with pay-to-play, much like the smartphone/tablet market, but they aren't.  They attempted to take away an open system and close it.  That doesn't work. 

 

This nonsense about creating a simple user-friendly novice sim is ridiculous.  All versions of MSFS have been rudimentary in reality.  They include lessons and documentation, I just think most people don't want to read.  The default aircraft are easy and way too forgiving.   Do I think they're garbage?  More or less.  In reality, FSX included some better default aircraft and I don't mind them.  The props are decent.  The C172 and others, the Maule, the Piper.  All good considering.  I still stand by my statement though.  If you own RealAir, PMDG, A2A and other high-end aircraft, are you really gonna log a bunch of hours in the default planes?  Probably not.  Especially when the jets within the sim fly like a bag of sand and are so poorly designed.  I don't see how wanting nice things makes me elitist.  I take offense to that.  I use WOAI for AI, and that's freeware.  I've used a lot of freeware items over the years. 

 

If DTG releases a sim that includes the whole world, much like MSFS or P3D, and allows the community to add payware or freeware enhancements, then I'm all for it.  When an airport changes something and it's locked in a closed environment that can't be fixed with ADE, will people be happy?  No.  When people want to add AI and only find a DLC offering that they don't like, will they be happy?  No.  The list goes on and on.  There are tons of choices for MSFS, DTG FSX:SE, P3D, and X-Plane.  That's what truly makes this hobby what it is, the ability to expand and build to your liking.  If I think a default item is crap, then I should be allowed that opinion and the ability to upgrade.  

 

I really think some of you are missing what those of us "hardcore" simmers are saying.   

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- Chris

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Hi everyone,

 

I admit I am getting more excited about DTG's announcement as the time gets nearer, and I am hoping they make a detailed statement about any upcoming features their new flight sim might have along with their announcement; but, not to be a Debbie Downer, but more likely than not, they are only going to announce their new flight sim is being developed. I can think of many airplanes that were announced over 1.5 years ago, and they are still in development. 

 

So a whole new flight sim, even if it is based on MS flight tech, will still take time to develop.

 

The fact that we have not seen ONE screenshot of this flight sim tells me we might be waiting a while before we play it.

 

I hardly doubt they are going to release a beta, never mind, a full game in the next few weeks.

 

Even then, it will take a while before we see airplanes like complex, realistic planes for it.

 

I am not as young as I used to be...lol... so I guess this flight sim might be for the young ones who will live long enough to see it mature like Xplane, FSX-SE, Prepar3d...

 

But it's exciting to see what they announce.

 

But I also have concerns, like (sorry, I don't know which poster) a poster posted earlier in this thread:

Why would they want to "cannibalize" there share in FSX-SE by releasing a more complex flight sim; they might want the more "laid back" flight gamer.... just my thoughts.


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We do hear what you hard-core simmers want..

A whole world, with to options for add-ons. Basically what you already have now.

 

What about the industry, the casual simmer, the 'carrot' for the novice, to make the industry grow, to excite us, as we once we're, & to show the newbie that you can have fun flying,(without spending more time tweaking) & more importantly to grow the base.

 

We do not need another 'what we have already', we, and I say this with respect,

do not need to indulge whims, fickle as they are, sometimes, of the hard-core simmer. We do not need to always denigrate those who do not PMDG! (Again, with respect)

 

We (the industry included) need a new engine to attract, tease, entertain & keep new blood.

 

Yes, we do hear you hard-core simmers, but please hear us as well!


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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Ok, 

 

this whole thread made me change my sig, again :-)

 

I hope, and will be more than happy, that DTG-FS brings me the same joy MS FLIGHT did !  That's all for now and until I read the News ...

 

I can no loner spend countless hours in front of the PC playing being an airline pilot and learning SOPs, but I love my PMDGs.

 

I've been spending countless hours in front of the PC playing war games, and shooting other AI and human controlled simulated fighters in front of me, because..., basically because some 5 yrs ago I lost the hope in MS FLIGHT... but it was the Aerocaches and adventures / missions that really made me love that sim and get from it the kind of joy I really don't get from simulating an airline flight ...

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Every few months/years this debate comes up. 'What do we want - what do we need from a new flightsim'?

 

Depending on which segment of the flight sim market you subscribe to will determine what the right answer is. There is a world of difference between a pubescent twit who want to crash aeroplanes and score points while sipping his milkshake to most of the contributors here. Where is the middle ground? I guess for DTG, the middle ground is (once again) where the cash is. 

 

That probably means making the face of DTG's new flightsim look 'gamey, archady, colourful, attractive. But whether DTG is capable of capturing the cash from all segments of the market, will mean achieving the above, in addition to an open ended platform for the Orbx', PMDG's and A2A's to plug into - based on a global sim model - basically, exactly the same thing MS delivered in 2006, but much more slick, much more optimised for modern PC's much more refined. I think most of us here will buy it just to 'see what it's like'. Whether we stick with it is another matter....

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NO, NO, NO, PLEASE!!, not yet another ' Orbyx, PMDG, A2A must plug into a global sim model', then we will buy it just to 'see what it's like'. :t0103:

 

For goodness sake, not everyone wants to fly a Boeing or an Airbus (I love my A2A, but really, having that compatibility in a brand new sim is pretty much irrelevant to me.)

 

I spoke about elitism in post #196

 

What you want is what we already have, so, you want the same, but looking prettier, that will run on modern, that is bigger graphics cards, more ram, the latest CPU's, more expensive kit etc. Praises that you did not say that it must also be 64bit & DX12 then we will buy it just to 'see what it's like'.

 

:fool: :t0152:


 

 


Where is the middle ground? I guess for DTG, the middle ground is (once again) where the cash is.

 

Of course it is, just like any other business, Microsoft included, which is why ACES Studio's & Flight! got canned.

I can just imagine a DTG boardroom meeting where the directors are deciding what their target market is..

A whole new bunch of users, or an existing jaded hard-core simmer market.


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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