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Pastaiolo

News on DTG Simulator is coming soon!

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NO, NO, NO, PLEASE!!, not yet another ' Orbyx, PMDG, A2A must plug into a global sim model', then we will buy it just to 'see what it's like'.

 

What I am suggesting is a completely new platform, based on a global model with open ended architecture so that any current or new add-on developer can plug into it.  A sandbox sim won't work for many.    Why is it not reasonable to want the new sim to allow the best in the market to provide DLC?   I want MORE from a new sim, not LESS.

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The default aircraft in MS FLIGHT, specially the RV-6 and the Maule were very good, in all aspects, including some system details and even the flight dynamics, and they weren't RealAirs, A2As or PMDGs....

 

I played MS FLIGHT missions and aerocache hunting intensively until I finaly was told what it's fate was... I even bought a few basic DLCs without cockpit, and with some arcade aerodynamics modeled to allow for extreme maneuvers without stalling them :-), and I really enjoyed playing it all !!!

 

I was just looking forward for additional scenery DLCs, of the Hawaii and Alaska quality, additional aircraft DLC, weather theme DLC's ( didn't even have to be real world weather! )... That never happened, and it was a BIG disappointment...

 

I'd rather be doing the same, than shoothing other aircraft on a Combat Flight Simulator, just to be able to enjoy the simulation of flight, so, I am looking fwd to whatever DTG announces ...


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I am looking fwd to whatever DTG announces ...

Be careful what you wish for.

 

...but I know what you're saying.

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If DTG's new flightsim brings new blood into the community, and that helps JustFlight/PC Pilot etc. to continue hosting flightsim shows at RAF Cosford for years to come, then it gets a thumbs up from me :good:


Christopher Low

UK2000 Beta Tester

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Not sure how we missed this before, but this makes me REALLY really excited about this new DTG sim. 

 

http://www.develop-online.net/news/dovetail-games-hires-codies-steve-hood/0201172

 

Incase you arent familiar with the F1 series, it is the premier Formula 1 simulator in the market. 

http://www.formula1-game.com/us/home

 

 

Creative director of Formula One games takes up same role as simulation specialist

Codemasters' Steve Hood has joined Dovetail Games as creative director for the simulation studio.

Hood held the same role at the racing publisher, where he led development for the Formula One games after joining Codies in 2009. 

Overall, Hood boasts more than 20 years of industry experience, having also worked in senior creative positions at Sony Computer Entertainment, Lionhead Studios and Psygnosis.

"I'm delighted that Stephen is joining the Dovetail Games family," said Rob O'Farrell, VP of development. "As well as having extensive creative knowledge and experience, he brings a unique passion for creating high quality simulation entertainment, which will be an invaluable addition to our team."

Hood added: "I'm incredibly proud to have helped Codemasters put Formula One games back on the map. But the time was right to accept a new opportunity with the talented team at Dovetail Games. I cannot wait to play a part in their future success."

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Let me guess.... you want 64bit. 

Josh Daniels-Johannson

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Oops, this news is over a year old.

 

Dunno if a Formula 1 racing game lead developer can really excite me. Arcade Racing car sims are a little different to flight sims. We shall see


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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Dunno if a Formula 1 racing game lead developer can really excite me. Arcade Racing car sims are a little different to flight sims. We shall see

 

Remember that all the technology (gaming engine) behind LM P3D was developed by the professionals in the Gaming industry and not LM. Gaming Industry are the world leaders in computer technology that has brought this hobby forward, that includes Hardware and Gaming Engines.

 

LM has been patching an old engine that was originally developed by a Gaming Studio, not really developing anything groundbreaking for the future of this hobby, just breathing life into FSX but under a different title, and it is Gaming Hardware that makes P3D all work for you because the Video Card and Hardware Controllers and other things are all designed for Gamers.

 

Funny you post about elitism in one post but show it in another with your elitism over Gamers, when it was Gamers that created Flight Simulator in the first place. Don't forget that.

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Matthew Kane

 

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NO, NO, NO, PLEASE!!, not yet another ' Orbyx, PMDG, A2A must plug into a global sim model', then we will buy it just to 'see what it's like'. :t0103:

 

For goodness sake, not everyone wants to fly a Boeing or an Airbus (I love my A2A, but really, having that compatibility in a brand new sim is pretty much irrelevant to me.)

 

I spoke about elitism in post #196

 

What you want is what we already have, so, you want the same, but looking prettier, that will run on modern, that is bigger graphics cards, more ram, the latest CPU's, more expensive kit etc. Praises that you did not say that it must also be 64bit & DX12 then we will buy it just to 'see what it's like'.

 

:fool: :t0152:

 

 

 

Of course it is, just like any other business, Microsoft included, which is why ACES Studio's & Flight! got canned.

I can just imagine a DTG boardroom meeting where the directors are deciding what their target market is..

A whole new bunch of users, or an existing jaded hard-core simmer market.

 

Wow, this is perhaps the most narcissistic post ever.  You want what you want, screw everybody else.  Us elitists want an open system, whereby you make it your own.  Simple default basics with improvements, or the ability to enhance the sim to do whatever you like.  You want to close the door on progress and regress to a closed system with little room for improvement over default packaging.  Do you live in a cabin in Montana?  Your posts are increasingly Luddite in nature.  You don't want 64-bit or DX12.  You don't want to include 3rd party developers.  You don't want the improvements to require a modern computer.  Your anger against this community's 3rd party development, particularly pay ware is evident.  Keep in mind that 3rd party development, both pay ware and free ware is what has kept FSX alive.  X-Plane is less used simply due to its limited options.  P3D is used way more simply because you can install improvements.  MS Flight died for the very reason you propose.  MS, just like you, thought that dumbing down the sim and excluding 3rd party development would sell.  It was jaded hardcore simmers who kept FSX alive, along with P3D and FSX:SE, it was the nonexistent new users who passed on MS Flight and led to it's demise.

 

If DTG is truly targeting a new audience then that's great, however, if they exclude the rest of us, it will be MS Flight all over again.  Good luck with that since it's what you want.

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- Chris

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Oops, this news is over a year old.

 

Dunno if a Formula 1 racing game lead developer can really excite me. Arcade Racing car sims are a little different to flight sims. We shall see

 

Exactly, it is a year old. Which is why I mentioned the fact that we missed it. It wasnt posted anywhere in the forums. 

 

The reason for me pointing it out, is that Chris is a incredible track record of making high quality sims. And the fact that they didnt just use their Train Sim team, but instead hired an outside creative director to make what will surely be a beautiful title, is an encouraging and exciting proposition. His track record isnt one of "arcade" type games. If you have ever played F1, you will know that it was a great simulator what focused primarily on the team aspect of F1 racing and rallying for position in strategic ways instead of just pedal to the metal full speed racing like you saw in many other titles. Codemasters in general made beautiful and great games and F1 was no exception. The physics, the rain simulation, and the strategic planning needed before the race all made it remarkable. If he was the creative lead behind a title like that, it is exciting to think his talents will be brought to flight simulation. 

 

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Let me guess.... you want 64bit. 

Josh Daniels-Johannson

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isnt the whole issue with making a new engine about performance for our flight sim world?  These guys are no doubt very talented. There are many talented gaming programmers who do amazing work. The F1 video above... sure it looks great. But the wide gap between any other game out there and flight sim is the map. F1 has a closed visual map. maybe its 5 square miles of visibility?  other games might include 30 square miles. You can pack alot into that little area. Even train simulator that DTG has been successful with despite being a niche is still a very closed map relative to flight sim. Your on rails and the computations will take into account maybe 15 miles all around? Complete guess but in either case its nowhere near what flight simming requires. I think what MS accomplished back with FSX is astounding, or any flight sim that models the whole world and has AI and has real time weather, ATC, and the list goes on. Im no programmer, but it just seems to me the task is so monumental relative to games in a closed environment.  I hope they can pull it off and satisfy all 4 corners of the market and make it attractive for 3PDs to put in resources to provide addons. Is the FLIGHT model engine up to the task? Time will tell. DTG is not dumb. This is a big project with big resource investment. They would be stupid to not consider what the present community wants while incorporating new recruits. Flight with all its potential failed because it dropped its core fan base. Im sure they picked up on that and dont want to repeat. 


CYVR LSZH 

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Sounds like the right man for the job.

 

But the wide gap between any other game out there and flight sim is the map. F1 has a closed visual map. maybe its 5 square miles of visibility?  other games might include 30 square miles.

 

FSX is at least 120 km2 according to Phil Taylor. I mean you can see the Rocky Mountains from my hometown airport, CYYC, in FSX. That's at least 120+ km away, IRL.

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Wow, this is perhaps the most narcissistic post ever. You want what you want, screw everybody else. Us elitists want an open system, whereby you make it your own. Simple default basics with improvements, or the ability to enhance the sim to do whatever you like. You want to close the door on progress and regress to a closed system with little room for improvement over default packaging.

 

I have never advocated a closed system at all. Never. I have always praised our freeware & payware developers that have added value to the basic engine. I also queried a few 'wish-lists' where, basically, all that was wanted was what we have, updated.

 

Progress? I say again, we need new blood within our hobby, THAT is where progress will come from. Not catering for the well established hard-core simmer.

 

 

 


Do you live in a cabin in Montana? Your posts are increasingly Luddite in nature. You don't want 64-bit or DX12. You don't want to include 3rd party developers. You don't want the improvements to require a modern computer.

 

Erm, no, I do not live in a cabin in Montana! I live in Cape Town, South Africa & have been involved in flight sims since the early TRS-80 flight sim days. For the last 12 years, I've been involved in a volunteer organization & look after,  train & mentor kids, (between 16-18 years old) that are passionate about flight. It's a 2 year project, every second Saturday mornings, ending with a Wings Parade & a hands-on flight in a real aircraft, where the kids are presented with Wings after qualifying their VPPL (PPL, an internationally recognised). Our Chief instructor has his national colours for this sport as well. Oh, we have also built 2x life size simulators, an Avro Shackleton & an MB326, but thats another story. Oh, we use the lousy default C172 for the training.

We have forgotten our first flight in a default aircraft, & how we could not stop grinning!!

 

So, I can say, that what the industry needs is growth & expansion (& money, of course). This can only come from bringing in new people. NOT by catering for the existing hard core simmer. The new sim needs to be simple enough to entice new people in, & also to keep them involved. We have seen this over the years at our academy. YES, there are those that want the Boeings 'n ' Bus's, they do move on to whatever they prefer.

 

 

 


our anger against this community's 3rd party development, particularly pay ware is evident. Keep in mind that 3rd party development, both pay ware and free ware is what has kept FSX alive.

 

Utter rubbish, read my previous posts!!


A bit more..

 

 

Orlaam --- P3D is used way more simply because you can install improvements.
 

 

Huh? What are you talking about? You can install improvements, as you call it into any sim. 

 

 

Orlaam --- MS Flight died for the very reason you propose. MS, just like you, thought that dumbing down the sim and excluding 3rd party development would sell.

 

It died because no-one wanted it. They could not give it away! B.T.W. I thought it was actually quite fun. It is also, even now, well supported by innovative guys that are modding it & sing it with FSX scenery. MS did not dumb down the sim. Flight was always exactly what it was, marketed as an entry level 'sim'. & there were payware 3rd party add-ons that were quite good.

 

 

Orlaam --- It was jaded hardcore simmers who kept FSX alive, along with P3D and FSX:SE, it was the nonexistent new users who passed on MS Flight and led to it's demise.
 

 

FSX & FS9, do not forget that, has been kept alive by developers, both freeware & payware, as there has been nothing else for us for the last 10 years. Yup, it was bad or non existent  marketing that failed Flight!, plus the expectations from all that  it would be the Holy Grail.

 

Orlaam --- If DTG is truly targeting a new audience then that's great, however, if they exclude the rest of us, it will be MS Flight all over again. Good luck with that since it's what you want.

 

That is not what I want, it is what the industry needs.

As I have said before, somewhere above...

Ideally, there should be

1. A basic ' Bronze' sim for the newbie, to catch & keep them, with a DLC service pack to take it to..

2. An advanced ' Silver' sim for the weekend warrier, with a DLC service pack to take it to..

3. A 'Gold' Sim, for the hard-core simmer.

 

Just as MS did with FSX, when they released Acceleration to take FSX to the next level!

 

Obviously, an open platform for add-ons as well!!

 

Once again, it is very obvious that, to monetize any release of theirs, DTG MUST go mass market, as opposed to a niche market!

 


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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So, I can say, that what the industry needs is growth & expansion (& money, of course). This can only come from bringing in new people. NOT by catering for the existing hard core simmer.

 

True, however there certainly is enough room for both: New people and "hard core simmers" alike - or at least there should be enough room for both when creating a new sim.

  :smile:

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wolke85.. :smile:

Yes, of course. something to keep the novices as well as the rest of us interested.

 

As I've said before, I really pity the poor developers who have to decide what to develop & for which sim. We need to keep them as well.


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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Just after firing up something like Outerra (and watching the video HiFlyer posted) just shows how far behind our current sims are. This simulates the planet procedurally, down to grass and trees blowing in the wind and it does so without killing performance. Of course, adding in buildings will complicate things somewhat, but it shows what modern engines can do as opposed to the aged ESP engine.

 

I was having a think about what got me initially interested in flight simulation, and although I thought I started with FS2000, I actually remembered I was given MS Flight Combat Simulator and MS Works along with the computer I bought around 1998. I remember after playing with that for sometime as a game, I became interested and wanted to pick up FS98 (or whatever it was at the time). It was only a year or so later that I picked up FS2000 on the off chance I saw it on sale at a gaming store. So I started out as a gamer and not a simmer. If the new sim has some element of fun then I think it will attract new users, but it also needs to appeal to both crowds (Which DTG seemed to hint that is what they're doing).

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