All the talk about adjusting and setting FAF's etc..  You can't simply go mixing terminology to suit the program, an FAF is a fixed point on an approach and will vary from approach to approach (traditionally only non precision approaches at that, but can vary from country to country). The vast majority of simmers are already confused enough when it comes to IFR procedures and terminology.

 

I started reading this thread today, and I agree, pretty unusual  deciding your own FAF altitudes and distance rather than what is in the approach plates for the airport you are landing at. Guess I don't quite understand the principle being used. 

Approaches aren't up to date because PF3 only reads the data that's in the sim. There won't be any AIRAC support afaik. You can shoot anything (apart from me   ) anyway you want to. ATC will let you fly the way you want to: if you want ATC to know more about a certain SID or STAR or approach you have to add the info into the add-on or put everything in the flight plan before you file it.

 

Idon't get why this is a problem. If you are going to fly a SID or a STAR or a RNAV approach, you just need to set PF3 so that it will tell you:

 

To fly your SID and will pick you up again after you hit a certain altitude or waypoint where your SID ends.

 

To Fly your STAR approach and it will either vector you/or clear you to final (configurable option) when you have completed your STAR.

 

If you want to fly a SID/ STAR /RNAV approach the actual waypoints of those do not need to be in your flightplan.

For some it's primarily based on natural voices, for some it must be as real as it gets. Some prefer the Copilot to handle all ATC (like currently in PROATCX), some like me enjoy to communicate myself.

 

Odd. I use ProATCX at present and don't have any copilot doing anything. you must have those options turned on?

 

For me one of the purposes of any ATC option is not only to increase immersion, but to give me as much to do as I can possibly cope with. I tune the radios, do the responses, everything, even during departure and approach. It's just a matter of being ahead of the action. Know what to expect and do things ready in advance. ;-)

 

Pete

Odd. I use ProATCX at present and don't have any copilot doing anything. you must have those options turned on?

 

I have to, because currently there`s bug with acknowledgements which get into a loop. So I can`t acknowledge anything myself.

No idea when this will be fixed.

 

Very much agree with your attitude regarding challenges and trying to stay ahead of the airplane under all circumstances !

 

Mike

Then stick with the default, as long as you are happy with american accents everywhere in the world.

I am not happy with that but choose it over robotic voices.

Idon't get why this is a problem. If you are going to fly a SID or a STAR or a RNAV approach, you just need to set PF3 so that it will tell you:.

That bold part is the problem: in certain situations I want ATC to tell me what to do and not the other way around. I want to get rid of that bold part. ATC should assign me a STAR, name and all, on its own. And not because I programmed it to do so. ATC should assist me and lead me and not the other way around.

All the talk about adjusting and setting FAF's etc..  You can't simply go mixing terminology to suit the program, an FAF is a fixed point on an approach and will vary from approach to approach (traditionally only non precision approaches at that, but can vary from country to country). The vast majority of simmers are already confused enough when it comes to IFR procedures and terminology.

Adjusting the FAF gives the user an option to get a more realistic

approach from ATC than the default-which has no customisation option.

So PF3 will interest those that have some understanding of approaches and are looking for something more realistic than the default ATC.One can't avoid these terms if one is comparing with real world terminology.

Jay

Odd. I use ProATCX at present and don't have any copilot doing anything. you must have those options turned on?

 

For me one of the purposes of any ATC option is not only to increase immersion, but to give me as much to do as I can possibly cope with. I tune the radios, do the responses, everything, even during departure and approach. It's just a matter of being ahead of the action. Know what to expect and do things ready in advance. ;-)

 

Pete

 

The only thing I use the Co pilot for in Pro ATC is frequency switching, everything else is turned off. 

That bold part is the problem: in certain situations I want ATC to tell me what to do and not the other way around. I want to get rid of that bold part. ATC should assign me a STAR, name and all, on its own. And not because I programmed it to do so. ATC should assist me and lead me and not the other way around.

 

Thats exactly what I was thinking - guess we are both wrong Jeroen

Well 18 pages of beating up a Dev, cat calls and mostly neg comments. This thread should be posted and anyone new wanting to sign up at AVSIM should be required to read every last post prior to being allowed to enter. I have no idea if this program is good or bad. It is clear that many don't understand what ATC is really for. I also suspect that many have not even looked a the manual. When A Developer is begging you to come to their site so they can help you out and you are too sorry to even click on their link then you don't need to be spouting off about the product. I want name any names but Richard you have passed bad info on this forum more than once and been corrected by folks in the know like Rob. 

Adjusting the FAF gives the user an option to get a more realistic

approach from ATC than the default-which has no customisation option.

So PF3 will interest those that have some understanding of approaches and are looking for something more realistic than the default ATC.One can't avoid these terms if one is comparing with real world terminology.

Jay

 

When I fly a star into an airport with PATC, the FAF altitude is stated, and is derived from the Airac data approach plate altitudes. When I cross FAF XXXX, I am told to be at 4,000 feet, and that should not be able to be changed by the pilot. 

Thats exactly what I was thinking - guess we are both wrong Jeroen

 

Well, I wouldn't call that wrong. We were hoping for something real life ATC does and which is something everyone hopes to find in an ATC addon. The fact that PF3 doesn't offer that doesn't make us wrong.  :wink:

When I fly a star into an airport with PATC, the FAF altitude is stated, and is derived from the Airac data approach plate altitudes. When I cross FAF XXXX, I am told to be at 4,000 feet, and that should not be able to be changed by the pilot. 

 

Correct, but jkeye is simply saying that PF3 IMPROVES default ATC in this regard (which it indeed does). He doesn't say PF3 does it as it is done in real life. So he is not saying you are wrong but that PF3 offers a compromise. I think that if you want to, you can add the EXACT FAF to PF3 (simple add the exact distance from the runway and the correct altitude: from what I have read in the manual this should be possible).

Well 18 pages of beating up a Dev, cat calls and mostly neg comments

 

I do agree about the part that it is odd and strange if someone doesn't want to contact the developer or sign unto the official forum to solve an issue. I do not agree about the 'beating up' part. No one is beating up the dev: we are simply trying to figure out in which regard PF3 does not do what most people would want it to do. Saying that there is no AIRAC support is not beating up the dev and neither is saying that the voices sound bad. We aren't on this forum to praise developers no matter what. If a product disappoints me I think it is okay to say so: that's not beating up a dev. I am sure the dev of PF3 doesn't enjoy all I have said about his product but that's no reason to not say it.

 

 

 

This thread should be posted and anyone new wanting to sign up at AVSIM should be required to read every last post prior to being allowed to enter.

 

Agreed. So everyone can see that in this forum you are allowed to be honest in what you think about any flightsim addon and you aren't expected to sugarcoat anything. :wink: If you can't stand open and honest discussions, don't enter.

Well 18 pages of beating up a Dev, cat calls and mostly neg comments. This thread should be posted and anyone new wanting to sign up at AVSIM should be required to read every last post prior to being allowed to enter. I have no idea if this program is good or bad. It is clear that many don't understand what ATC is really for. I also suspect that many have not even looked a the manual. When A Developer is begging you to come to their site so they can help you out and you are too sorry to even click on their link then you don't need to be spouting off about the product. I want name any names but Richard you have passed bad info on this forum more than once and been corrected by folks in the know like Rob. 

 

Passed bad info you serious - have you seen my avatar - guess not - I have been very helpful and contributed way more than you can imagine - so keep your comments to yourself

 

Back to the subject I was just confused as to what this program does and how it works thats all - took a while to get it sorted out what and what it can not do

 

 

I do agree about the part that it is odd and strange if someone doesn't want to contact the developer or sign unto the official forum to solve an issue. I do not agree about the 'beating up' part. No one is beating up the dev: we are simply trying to figure out in which regard PF3 does not do what most people would want it to do. Saying that there is no AIRAC support is not beating up the dev and neither is saying that the voices sound bad. We aren't on this forum to praise developers no matter what. If a product disappoints me I think it is okay to say so: that's not beating up a dev. I am sure the dev of PF3 doesn't enjoy all I have said about his product but that's no reason to not say it.

 

 

I also don't feel that anyone is "beating up" on the developer. There are many, many threads where an add on is discussed and pros and cons are addressed by the forum members joining in the discussion. That is what the forum is for, to have an open dialog between forum members. If one has a negative feeling about a feature or lack thereof, and posts it, I don't think accusing that person(s) of "beating up" on anyone, is very productive to the discussion.  

I never said that is was wrong to question or point out things that are not working correctly. The rest I stand by. 

I am not happy with that but choose it over robotic voices.

 

That bold part is the problem: in certain situations I want ATC to tell me what to do and not the other way around. I want to get rid of that bold part. ATC should assign me a STAR, name and all, on its own. And not because I programmed it to do so. ATC should assist me and lead me and not the other way around.

PF3 is actually doing what ATC do in real life. It's a total misconception that ATC give "you" a fpl and SIDs STARs etc. In fact it is you the pilot or your airline that will give ATC a fpl.  Just as you give PF3 a fpl. SIDs and STARs are known by the pilot/airline just as much as by ATC because they are published. So I know as a pilot or airline dispatcher that for a particular routing the SIDs and STARs  will be A or B or C or D. I know as a pilot/airline that ATC will choose A or B or C or D depending on the weather conditions etc. They are not going to give me SID Z because I don't want to go in that direction!

That bold part is the problem: in certain situations I want ATC to tell me what to do and not the other way around

Real ATC "tell" you what to do according to your instructions to them i.e. your fpl!

When you created your fpl you looked at all the restrictions on the charts and routed accordingly.

 

Your fpl is nothing more than a set of instructions to ATC. "We are going to fly from a to b via x and y at xx altitude"

Because we are leaving in this direction we'll avail ourselved of SID a or B and because we are arriving from that direction we'll take STAR C or D.

 

So when you are generating a fpl within PF3 all you are doing is simulating filing "YOUR" fpl with real ATC.

I suggest that you and anyone else who thinks otherwise look up "how to file a flightplan" NATS in the UK will even let you do it on line. In exactly the same way I file my tax return on line.