I guess that's the great appeal of flightsim.  It means different things to different people.  We all experience it differently, but in a way which appeals individually.  

I know people want a completely new sim breaking all backward compatibility. Take a minute though to realize just what that means. New SDK with new tools which will require  whole new learning curve for developers. While this sounds good, it will mean much longer development time for 3rd parties to get on board. Look at X-Plane for example.Look how long it is taking PMDG to adopt this platform, and then it's only their "sandbox" model (DC-6) to get their feet wet on the platform. It will probably be more then another year or 2 before they produce a NGX or T7 for X-Plane. Meanwhile it didn't take them long at all to tool up for P3D, which came later and we already have the NGX and T7 for it. So I for one think it is ultimately not in this communities best interest to make a clean break for the FSX/ESP structure. I think we would be better off with a 64bit sim based on the FSX/ESP structure, with DX11 graphic advancements and performance improvements using simconnect, maybe updated to increase functionality, , to make it easier for developers to develop for it. This will speedup product introduction into the market, which will help both 3rd party developers bottom line as well as DTG's, and keep this market viable. One of the big reasons MS Flight failed was the lack of DLC available for it, and no way to fill the gap. I fear if it takes a prolonged time to introduce addons of the standard we are accustomed too, the same could happen with DFS. I could understand if they were moving to a newer more advanced engine, but as long as it's still will be based on the FSX/ESP engine, I think reinventing the wheel here will turn out to be a mistake!

One of the big reasons MS Flight failed was the lack of DLC available for it,

...and almost certainly because it wasn't a global sim.

 

But it many ways, FSX also had a long dry spell before developers began to develop the ability to create content. I think it was almost a year after release before we started to see content.

Well, Erich, Even though I sometimes sail a boat or even drive a car through some of my favourite scenery, I believe that that does not make me a lesser simmer than those guys that PMDG,

It's the immersion factor that I really enjoy.

 

It's fun setting up a race at our virtual club,.... driving to a harbour, changing to a boat, sailing to a sea plane, maybe an amphibian, flying to an island, and so forth. Thats' what I call fun, for me.

 

There is no rush to get everything for the new sim. As long as the base engine is good enough, support will come.

There is no rush to get everything for the new sim. As long as the base engine is good enough, support will come

Correct

 

P3D is the sim of choice for me until DTG comes into its own - apart from which, there is no doubt that I would run them side-by-side before ultimately making a final choice of platform. It's generally a good time to be a simmer again

"I think some people need to face reality and lower their expectations and wishes. What is asked for above isn't even in FSX/P3D right now so how could you expect all this to be in a brand new (base!!!) sim...? Yes, a lot of what is asked (but still not everything!!!) can be brought into FSX/P3D but only buy spending 10 times (probably even more) the amount of money the base sim costs. Seriously, what do you expect? A perfect sim right from the start for the price of a game?"

"Sometimes simmers remind me of spoiled little brats that want everything NOW. And that sometimes does include me, let me be clear about that LOL!!!"

 

How condescending!
Wow folks! I'm surprised at what we as a Sim community had reduced our selves to settling for.

In 2016, with the advancements in tech and the lowered costs, not to mention our years of settling, I am very disappointed at the perspective of the acceptance of less.

 

Imagine if you went to buy the newest model of your current car and you asked if they would be fixing the problems or upgrading the model and got this response from a salesman.

Yes, we can ask and expect the best from each product we purchase - else why purchase it - just because it's new (Microsoft / Apple)? Yes as a PURCHASING customer, I do want everything NOW! Or I will not purchase unit the product MATURES and provides me what I need.

.

 

You have been a member of Avsim since April 2012, with only 2x posts so far? Welcome.

 

Here we go again with the threats......., I will not buy unless it gives me what I want now!! -- How petulant.

 

As a PURCHASING customer, caste your mind back to when you got FSX or whatever sim.

If you recall, it was a bare bones sim with crappy scenery & a bunch of default planes.

If you also recall, you spent money to buy things that satisfied your needs. It only matured thanks to add-on plane & scenery developers, NOT forgetting DTG who took a 10 year old game, where more time was spent fiddling than flying, tweaked it a bit & re-distributed it, much to everyone's delight! Took 10 years to mature?

 

As a purchasing customer of a new sim, you will probably buy the best engine around when it is released, well, it will be the latest. THEN you will have to buy whatever satisfies your needs to make it your own. It will be very foolish to expect anything just released to be your personal Holy Grail straight out the box, without any add-ons to suit your needs.

 

This posting is actually quite true, as just proven..

"Sometimes simmers remind me of spoiled little brats that want everything NOW.

 

(Remember, it's only a game!) :p0503:

 

 

Remember, it's only a game!

 

It's what!  Them's fightin' words.        

Dunno about that, remember, FSX, FS2004, P3D etc have been around for 10+ years, less for others.

 

 

For the record, X-Plane for Windows came out in 1993, so it's no spring chicken either.  :smile:

 

Why would a completely new product, not compatible with anything else, cause other distribution lines to fail?

Actually, not a bad thing for a new product to have a unique distribution outlet.

 

 

For me, the interesting question about distribution channels is more about how DTG will handle free, user-made content. Payware will find its own channels, whether it's through Steam, the Windows store, or other online storefronts. 

 

DTG has an opportunity to distribute user-made free content through the Steam Workshop, although I don't know how that will work if they're also distributing the main sim through Windows store. Maybe they'll allow keys for Steam, so the Workshop content can be used. 

 

I know this is getting ahead of things, since DTG has only vaguely suggested that they know people want access to user-made content. But at least there is already a channel for it on Steam, if they want to open it up.

 

 

You have been a member of Avsim since April 2012, with only 2x posts so far? Welcome.
 
Here we go again with the threats......., I will not buy unless it gives me what I want now!! -- How petulant.
 
As a PURCHASING customer, caste your mind back to when you got FSX or whatever sim.
If you recall, it was a bare bones sim with crappy scenery & a bunch of default planes.
If you also recall, you spent money to buy things that satisfied your needs. It only matured thanks to add-on plane & scenery developers, NOT forgetting DTG who took a 10 year old game, where more time was spent fiddling than flying, tweaked it a bit & re-distributed it, much to everyone's delight! Took 10 years to mature?
 
As a purchasing customer of a new sim, you will probably buy the best engine around when it is released, well, it will be the latest. THEN you will have to buy whatever satisfies your needs to make it your own. It will be very foolish to expect anything just released to be your personal Holy Grail straight out the box, without any add-ons to suit your needs.
 
This posting is actually quite true, as just proven..
"Sometimes simmers remind me of spoiled little brats that want everything NOW.
 
(Remember, it's only a game!)

 

Even though I agree with much of what you said, I'm not sure if characterizations like "petulant" and "spoiled brat" help very much in keeping the conversation civil. People are bound to react, and then before you know it WHOOSH! the whole thread is off track.

I know people want a completely new sim breaking all backward compatibility. Take a minute though to realize just what that means. New SDK with new tools which will require  whole new learning curve for developers. While this sounds good, it will mean much longer development time for 3rd parties to get on board. Look at X-Plane for example.Look how long it is taking PMDG to adopt this platform, and then it's only their "sandbox" model (DC-6) to get their feet wet on the platform. It will probably be more then another year or 2 before they produce a NGX or T7 for X-Plane. Meanwhile it didn't take them long at all to tool up for P3D, which came later and we already have the NGX and T7 for it. So I for one think it is ultimately not in this communities best interest to make a clean break for the FSX/ESP structure. I think we would be better off with a 64bit sim based on the FSX/ESP structure, with DX11 graphic advancements and performance improvements using simconnect, maybe updated to increase functionality, , to make it easier for developers to develop for it. This will speedup product introduction into the market, which will help both 3rd party developers bottom line as well as DTG's, and keep this market viable. One of the big reasons MS Flight failed was the lack of DLC available for it, and no way to fill the gap. I fear if it takes a prolonged time to introduce addons of the standard we are accustomed too, the same could happen with DFS. I could understand if they were moving to a newer more advanced engine, but as long as it's still will be based on the FSX/ESP engine, I think reinventing the wheel here will turn out to be a mistake!

 

Well, you have to make a new start sometime. You can't go on with old tech infinitely. But let me remind you that the new sim isn't a total break from the past: no matter what it still is based on FSX tech. And also note that 'simply' making FSX or P3D 64 bit would result in the same problems this new sim willl be facing: existing addons can't simply be converted to 64 bit with a push of a button. But again, their comes a time you have to break with the past to progress. And imho doing this now is the best time because we have pretty good full blown sims at our disposal! Starting a new sim 2 years after the release of FSX would probably have been the disaster you are talking about but right now, 10 years after the release of FSX, we have great sims and they won't go anywhere! So while Dovetail is working on their sim, even if this may take a few years before it will be a full blown hardcore sim, we can enjoy what we already have which is a lot more than EVER before in the history of simming. This is the BEST time to start a new sim imho. Better start working on a new sim while you have a good sim at hand then when there is nothing to keep you happy.

In 2016, with the advancements in tech and the lowered costs, not to mention our years of settling,

I don't see such advancements, I don't see any break-troughs, I see incremental improvements in technology. And most importantly I don't see any advancements in writing software, the human labor-intensive aspect of it has remained unchanged for the last 20 years. Unless you can come up with a way to drastically multiply effectiveness of software developer I am afraid your call "give everything to me NOW" (and probably for cheap) will remain a rather silly slogan.

 

 

Even though I agree with much of what you said, I'm not sure if characterizations like "petulant" and "spoiled brat" help very much in keeping the conversation civil. People are bound to react, and then before you know it WHOOSH! the whole thread is off track.

 

Said In the heat of the moment, I do apologise.

Said In the heat of the moment, I do apologise.

 

I know how that goes. Sometimes I type a quick answer, wander away, then come back a few minutes later and realize that my choice of words was sharper than I intended, which for me, means its time for some hasty editing before either the editing timer runs out, or somebody replies to my words, trapping them out in the world forever for all to see.  :blush:

 

Such is life.   

I know how that goes. Sometimes I type a quick answer, wander away, then come back a few minutes later and realize that my choice of words was sharper than I intended, which for me, means its time for some hasty editing before either the editing timer runs out, or somebody replies to my words, trapping them out in the world forever for all to see.  :blush:

 

Such is life.   

 

LOL Been there, done that. The last time was my previous post in this topic which I even edited twice...!   I sometimes get in a flow and start typing my personal opinions about whatever which usually is of no interest to the topic at hand. Not a real problem when those opinions are positive and contribute something but too often my opinions are rather sharp and negative... and of no real use at all other than getting it of my chest. And a forum is not the place for that.  :wink:

 

EDIT

This post is unedited btw. Er...