Sign in to follow this  
J van E

DTG Flight Simulator expectations: let's face reality

Recommended Posts

In the Ask DTG topic this was posted:

 

Perhaps Martin can answer a simple Yes/No to each as to whether they are to be included into the base new DTFS (not Flight School but Flight Simulator):

1. Accurate flight dynamics for all included aircraft, with smooth flight motion?
2. Realistic and accurate jet / tubo prop airliner
flight decks with operable switches that do what they are supposed to do, and smooth gauges, of the quality of A2A PMDG / QW / LevelD?
3. BTW, Which aircraft are planned to be included as standard?
4. Realistic ATC with voice interface?
5. Realistic weather engine, with accurate real world weather depiction incl. winds (surface and aloft), cloud cover, different precipitation?
6. Ability to accurately calibrate joysticks, Throttles and rudders and related h/w buttons to various DTFS functions?
7. Accurate Scenery mesh to at least LOD 10?
8. SDK to enable Add-on Airport & Aircraft manufacturers to modify all the top 3rd party products to the new sim?
9. Great default textures to the quality of ORBX Global?

If Martin could give clear answers to the above, rather than company clouded answers, then perhaps we shall all have more faith in the new simulator, and would not be so concerned, and can simply look forward rather than expecting the status quo. If not then most simmers will remain sceptical at least.

Stuart

 

 

I think some people need to face reality and lower their expectations and wishes. What is asked for above isn't even in FSX/P3D right now so how could you expect all this to be in a brand new (base!!!) sim...? Yes, a lot of what is asked (but still not everything!!!) can be brought into FSX/P3D but only buy spending 10 times (probably even more) the amount of money the base sim costs. Seriously, what do you expect? A perfect sim right from the start for the price of a game? 

 

We all asked for progress and leaving the old behind. Although DTG FS is based on parts of FSX it is something new and what do we get: the same old moaning about old add ons not working in the new one and expecting EVERYTHING (plus more!) we have now in the new sim right away. I don't get that. How long did it take for FSX/P3D to get where we are now? Let's also not forget that FSX/P3D won't be magically erased from your HD when you install DTG FS: you can use those 'old' sims for whatever you miss in DTG FS. 

 

I am very happy DTG is at least trying to go for something new and has long term plans. Let's not discourage them by remaining skeptical because the sim might not contain everything 'most simmers' want... That will get us nowhere. I do believe DTG needs us simmers to get where they want to. If we let go now we might end up with a pure arcadish flying game. Let's make sure that doesn't happen.

 

Sometimes simmers remind me of spoiled little brats that want everything NOW. And that sometimes does include me, let me be clear about that LOL!!! But not when it comes to DTG FS. I want to see DTG FS become HUGE (while enjoying my Legacy with GTN 750 above FTX Norway in ASN weather on the side  :wink: ).

  • Upvote 21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Har to understand why some people bother with simming at all...

 

Lets just let DTG make a solid and stable foundation before we start nitpicking features. It has taken Lockheed Martin 6-7 years and 12 major updates to arrive at something that looks a little less dated than FSX, and I suppose it will take DTG at least 2-3 years before the potential of the new sim proven or disproven...

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair to Stuart, a new flightsim that will not have backwards compatibility needs to be an improvement on the previous sims, otherwise why make the switch?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed. The wise have spoken.

 

To expand on their points, let put it this way... Before FSX was released, there was ALOT of hype. The Aces team were all over these forums, everyone was getting excited. It was amazing. When FSX was actually released. - everyone's jaw dropped - and not in a good way. FSX was stuttery, buggy and an awful mess when it was first released. Plagued with legacy coding, unfinished new coding. It really was horrible. It was so horrible I went back to FS9 for about 2 years. MS eventually released SP2 which they veneered as 'Acceleration'....and that was MS entire contribution to FSX - never were they to be seen again, not even heard from.

 

From that, FSX grew into one amazing sim as hardware became faster and addons more innovative. For me, the huge catalyst which made me a believer in FSX was Orbx. When they first released the Australia sceneries, that was it for me. FSX suddenly became awesome.

 

**Friday Optimism Mode - ON **

 

Fast forward 10 years later. A new company. A new sim. Based on FSX (granted) but gutted entirely and made 64 bit. DTG have told us they're in it for the long-haul - AND they have given us DX11 - AND they have told us that 3rd party development will be supported to make it succeed in the long haul. From Stuart's extensive shopping list, I'm pretty sure that within a year after release based on what we have been told to date, that DTGFS will be one BAD PUPPY.

 

**Friday Optimism Mode - OFF**

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will ride that "Friday Optimism Mode" wave, Erich! Only four hours to go to my weekend :wink:

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't agree more Jeroen, nicely said

 

It seems people are expecting a simulator that will beat FSX/P3D or X-Plane + hundreds of dollars worth of plugins out of the box, and no doubt for a cheap $60 price. We need to be realistic, this will likely be a slightly improved FSX which as Martin has stated, will be evolved over-time. We are certainly a demanding bunch 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a lot of people over think the purpose of the base sim. The base sim should be just that, a base to build on. There of course should be improvements from the older fsx sim, but I'd prefer those improvements to be all in the core, allowing greater flexibility for 3PD's to real go for hold and make some potentially groundbreaking add ins for the next gen.

 

Turning to Stuart's list, but only as a reference, here are my thoughts.

 

1. Accurate flight dynamics for all included aircraft, with smooth flight motion?

 

If it's a small number of aircraft, well yes, accurate flight dynamics would be nice. But smooth motion could be more difficult to promise, given the menagerie of different system setups out there.

 

2. Realistic and accurate jet / tubo prop airliner

flight decks with operable switches that do what they are supposed to do, and smooth gauges, of the quality of A2A PMDG / QW / LevelD?

 

Not the concern of DTG. I flew the default 737 which led me to the add on ones in fs2004 and beyond. The more complex a default aircraft, the more off putting it will be for the newbie. Graduating to a 737 default aircraft shouldn't fill a new pilot with terror. Plus why would PMDG etc bother producing they're own aircraft if the defaults are too good.

 

3. BTW, Which aircraft are planned to be included as standard?

 

Only DTG know that.

 

4. Realistic ATC with voice interface?

 

Would be nice, and the technology is there, but given the complexities involved, maybe a 3PD would be better suited to produce the ATC

 

5. Realistic weather engine, with accurate real world weather depiction incl. winds (surface and aloft), cloud cover, different precipitation?

 

Obviously weather is important, but again a dedicated 3PD would have more scope to provide a better weather engine than any default. DTG are better suited to providing the access to the sims data for others to exploit.

 

 

6. Ability to accurately calibrate joysticks, Throttles and rudders and related h/w buttons to various DTFS functions?

 

Easily done. Even LM reworked the old joystick interface to allow for more functions to be used.

 

 

7. Accurate Scenery mesh to at least LOD 10?

 

Again, best left to 3PD who already own the data needed.

 

8. SDK to enable Add-on Airport & Aircraft manufacturers to modify all the top 3rd party products to the new sim?

 

won't be done. DTG have already said there will be no backwards comparability. That said most scenery objects should be easy to convert to the new sim standards. Complex add ons lie aircraft will need a complete rework from the ground up.

 

 

9. Great default textures to the quality of ORBX Global?

 

Well they're making fresh sim objects, so I imagine that the textures will get a remake. More importantly, I'd love to see the land class lookup options expanded beyond the current 127 limit. That would allow Orbx to have the NA scenery to be completely separate from the AU scenery and so on. No more switching or hybrid mode.

 

If we can have a great base for the next five years, we could see some fantastic add ins way beyond what fsx/p3d can provide.

 

My 2p's worth anyway.

 

Edited for a rewording of answer 8. Mental note, read whole question, not just bits. :)

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9. Great default textures to the quality of ORBX Global?

 

Well they're making fresh sim objects, so I imagine that the textures will get a remake. More importantly, I'd love to see the land class lookup options expanded beyond the current 127 limit. That would allow Orbx to have the NA scenery to be completely separate from the AU scenery and so on. No more switching or hybrid mode.

 

 

Even with the current limit Orbx has managed to develop tech to eliminate the switching as you may well know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even with the current limit Orbx has managed to develop tech to eliminate the switching as you may well know.

True, but imagine what people like Orbx could achieve if the limit was 1000 rather that just over 100. (It's 127 iirc). :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True, but imagine what people like Orbx could achieve if the limit was 1000 rather that just over 100. (It's 127 iirc). :)

 

You're absolutely right! The world could look a lot more accurate than it does today. Let's hope the new sim will make it possible.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Open Sdk and the ability to add either freeware and payware other than miserable dlc - addons only  is a must for a sim of this kind to last long and grow fully !

 

Look how long took fsx and p3d to be where they are - and that is what an open Sdk - along the ability to add as you like into the sim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The majority does not expect wonders.

But it seems that DTG is just recycling FSX.

Flight School looks like it is a 64Bit FSX with a Flight School Mission Pack.

 

I don`t expect a miracle up to the release of the full simulator.

But i expected more than a recycled FSX....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don`t expect a miracle up to the release of the full simulator.

But i expected more than a recycled FSX....

Apparently you haven't been reading the thread all that carefully, since Martin has made it quite clear that this is not going to be "recycled FSX" at all. Yes, the core engine and some elements will be carried forward, but most definitely not the whole of it. :Thinking:

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And runways that follow the contour of the landscape, Third party developers can take care of the rest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Much wisdom in this thread.

 

My $.02 - an overview from the flight levels - is that a new sim needs to be:

 

1. Attractive and smooth-running out of the box - fluid, with good lighting and atmospheric effects and all the other things that will create an emotional experience and draw new people in.  Simple and accessible counts here, too - good interfaces, good default aircraft, things like that.

 

2. An easy-to-access and easy-to-work-with operating system, so that third-party developers can create all the deluxe hardcore features that committed simmers want... and that newcomers can move up to as they get drawn into the experience more and more - as Jessica describes above.

 

And that's it.  A new engine that takes advantage of modern hardware, resolves performance bottlenecks, looks good out of the box, and lets developers do their thing - that's the whole ballgame right there.

 

Seems to me from Martin's post that Dovetail gets it.  We'll see when they launch, but like others here, I'm staying hopeful.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flight School looks like it is a 64Bit FSX with a Flight School Mission Pack.

 

To  be fair DTG have been pretty clear in their thread here that they have not spent that much time on Flight School beyond 64 bit, DX11, two reasonably detailed aircraft models and the instructor alongside the trainee. This is mainly because they don't think it's required for what is effectively an entry level flight sim. DG Flight Sim however will have rather more work done although Martin has made it plain that the initial release will be lacking as compared to FSX/FSX-SE e.g. FSUIPC and existing adds-ons not supported.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And runways that follow the contour of the landscape, Third party developers can take care of the rest.

The only way you will see this, is if they can get AI to work with contoured taxiways/runways. To date neither MS/Aces, LM or DTG (FSX-SE)  has been able to do that with the FSX/ESP engine...and before anybody throws in MS Flight was able to do  it, Flight did not have an AI system to worry about. Without AI both FSX, FSXSE and P3D are all capable of this as well. So I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. Though DTG does appear to have some talented developers on their staff, most notable the VAS management improvements, they were able to do with FSXSE, so I wouldn't completely rule it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


I just want the damned thing to work out of the box...

 

100% agree  :smile: . This is what the majority of new simmers will want and don't want to have to edit .ini and .cfg files to get their sim to work

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The UNIGINE is pretty amazing, a bit like Outerra. I have to wonder if this is the graphic engine that DTG might possibly use:  Probably not, but a girl can dream . . .

 

UNIGINE is designed to handle virtual worlds of unprecedented scale without limits.

 

The Earth Model R&D Prototype (UNIGINE 2 Sim)

 

UNiGiNE - Next Gen Flight Simulator Tech Demo - Port Angeles - GTX 780 Ti

 

[Guys, forgive me if this is old news, but I just stumbled upon this.]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dont forget the hydraulics and pneumatic full motion addon. Takes any chair and provides full movement and force effects.  Emergency addon to come as well complete with engine fire and smoke smell.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dont forget the hydraulics and pneumatic full motion addon. Takes any chair and provides full movement and force effects.  Emergency addon to come as well complete with engine fire and smoke smell.

If it doesn't have an escape slide, I'm out...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this