" Hi Martin,
I have a problem with your answer.
We are not comparing operating systems here, we are comparing distribution outlets for a game, so, a comparison between 2x on-line stores will be more applicable?
 
Another concern is that will there be the exact same content available from the two outlets you will be using?
It will be a pity if developers choose one outlet over another, or will it be a condition that all content will be available from both?
That brings us to freeware. As you said, the distribution 'platforms' are different how will this impact the freeware guys? Or will all additional content be vetted by DTG? "
 
I think this could be a serious concern as to where we find our add-ons, based on where we get the game.
No wonder there are worries about SDK's etc

 

Great question Robin

And there's more..

Mmmm, & all those freeware guys that have made our existing sims so immersive?

Ok, so, if distributed by Steam, I'm sure they would have their own forum.

I wonder what Microsoft will do & where their forum would be?

 

So, the mind boggles:

Will we have DTGFS:SE forum, a DTGFS:MS forum, the same for the Flight School?

I'm sure that there could be unique issues for each install?

 

 

Mmmm, & all those freeware guys that have made our existing sims so immersive?

 

Historically yes.  For the past number of years I have been almost exclusively a payware user.  The quality in freeware is not  as abundant as it was for FS9 any longer.  Most of the quality stuff you have to pay for which is understandable.

 

Forgive me if I have posted this before..

A reality check!!

My question asked was:

"But it will be interesting as far as add-ons go, & where they are to be found.

So, if we get the sim from Steam, are we then limited to Steam DLC's, & will the same apply to the Windows Store downloads?"

 

Martin answered:

" Whichever platform you choose to use your purchases will be registered with them accordingly. This means that content for one platform will not work or transfer to another. 

 

Think of it like this, you have game A for your iphone, you can't use that same game on your Android phone. Likewise if you have game A for your Xbox One you can't use it on your PS4. 

 

This is because there are a few key differences between Steam and the Windows Store, including the big one - DRM 

 

- Martin  "

 

This raises a lot of questions & we then MUST be careful where we decide to get the game.

 

I'm waiting for an answer for the following..

 

" Hi Martin,

I have a problem with your answer.

We are not comparing operating systems here, we are comparing distribution outlets for a game, so, a comparison between 2x on-line stores will be more applicable?

 

Another concern is that will there be the exact same content available from the two outlets you will be using?

It will be a pity if developers choose one outlet over another, or will it be a condition that all content will be available from both?

That brings us to freeware. As you said, the distribution 'platforms' are different how will this impact the freeware guys? Or will all additional content be vetted by DTG? "

 

I think this could be a serious concern as to where we find our add-ons, based on where we get the game.

No wonder there are worries about SDK's etc

 

 

 

 

The answer to this is simple if you have experience with other games sold on and off Steam.

 

If you buy a game on Steam + buy an addon for that game on Steam then that addon bought on Steam will only work with the Steam version of the game. All installation of Steam games and addons are done by their client. That's the reason why you can't use an addon bought on steam with a non-steam bought game.

 

BUT, there are lots of games which still allow 3rd party addons and mods which don't distrbute through Steam but can still be used with Steam games.

 

So in Martin's example, if you buy the Windows Store version of DTFS, yet buy addons on Steam, they aren't compatible for obvious reasons (the two clients don't work together)...BUT this doesn't mean standalone distributed expansions with their own installers can't be compatible with both versions.

 

So the only question left is will DTG allow distribution of addons outside of Steam and the Windows Store? We don't know that yet and they aren't gonna tell us anytime soon it seems.

 

Just in...

Are we heading towards the scenario of a DTG windows version and a DTG Steam version?
And neither will work together in harmony
If the idea is to have 100% content available on both stores then thats fine as this then becomes the individuals choice,but what are the plans regarding freeware development and that distribution

 

 

That is exactly how it will work. There will be a Windows Store versions and there will be a Steam version. They are both simply a means by which to purchase the sim. Like you say, it comes does to personal choice and which method of distribution you prefer. Some people like Steam, some people like the Windows Store. It is up to each simmer to decide which one is best for them. 

 

In terms of third party content, be it free or paid for, I have spoken about this in a number of other comments. Here is a quick recap of the main points. 

 

Over the past 2 years, we have made our intentions clear with respect to welcoming and working with developers, both big and small, on FSX: SE. We fully intend to continue those relationships and looking forward will be welcoming both existing and new developers to the Dovetail Games Flight Simulator platform. We also recognise the passion that exists in the flight simulation community around enabling players to create user generated content. We will have more information to share on this as we get closer to the launch.       

 

We are still developing the sim! Even when released it will take time for the infrastructure around it to settle into a pattern. Over time those patterns may change depending on what developers and simmers alike want. 

 

- Martin 

 

Mmmm, & all those freeware guys that have made our existing sims so immersive?

 

Ok, so, if distributed by Steam, I'm sure they would have their own forum.

I wonder what Microsoft will do & where their forum would be?

 

So, the mind boggles:

Will we have DTGFS:SE forum, a DTGFS:MS forum, the same for the Flight School?

 

 

There will be a Steam forum. Steam automatically creates one for each game. However, we are just putting the finishing touches to our own custom made forum. It has some really nice feature in it too. Once launched we will be using that forum as the main one for all Dovetail Games simulators. 

 

- Martin

I love Steam and I don't er... don't like the Windows Store so for me the choice is very easy. Steam all the way. :wink: I can't imagine why anyone would want to go for the Windows Store option, really, at least not when you know about its limitations.

 

I think this could be a serious concern as to where we find our add-ons, based on where we get the game.

No wonder there are worries about SDK's etc

 

 

It may not be that bad. For payware add-ons, anyone developing for DFS like Orbx, PMDG or Carenado would be crazy not to announce and release products on both Steam and Windows Store at the same time, keeping everything in sync. The natural place for news and support would be each developers' own forum, but there would still be a Steam forum (and I guess something on the Windows store?). Other game developers are used to having to track more than one forum these days, since there are multiple retail outlets like Steam, GoG, Origin, etc. 

 

The tricky part will be free user-developed content, but that might not be a problem either. It depends on how "agnostic" the DFS software is. For example, there are two different versions of X-Plane -- the one you can buy from the .org store and the Steam version. But both versions are "agnostic" for add-ons -- they don't care if you're running a Carenado model purchased on the .org store or direct from Carenado. The same applies to free airplane models and free scenery. All free add-ons work with either version of the main flight sim.

 

So it might be the case that if DFS is agnostic enough about add-ons, it won't matter where you get the free ones. It might also turn into something like the free user mods for many games, where you can get the same free mod from the Steam Workshop or from a source like the Nexus web site. Same free mod, just a slightly different installation routine.

 

There are precedents for all of this, it just depends on how DTG handles it. 

The addons markets includes few more angles to be ironed as for example:

 

30 % DTG - 30 % Steam for the service and after all that here come the taxman ! Many will turn their back !

 

Who owns copyrights ? - and who is responsible for software leaks into the underworld - that could open Massive legals fights !  DLC or any Simulator are not bullettproof.

 

Who owns the freeware (if any) copyrights ?? once uploaded into whatever site ?

 

not easy as it looks -  !!

The addons markets includes few more angles to be ironed as for example:

 

30 % DTG - 30 % Steam for the service and after all that here come the taxman ! Many will turn their back !

 

Who owns copyrights ? - and who is responsible for software leaks into the underworld - that could open Massive legals fights !  DLC or any Simulator are not bullettproof.

 

Who owns the freeware (if any) copyrights ?? once uploaded into whatever site ?

 

not easy as it looks -  !!

 

Luckily we are dealing with a company that has vast experience with Steam distribution and DLC's. So I am sure that if anyone can figure it out, they can. It's easy for us to find doubt from the outside, but they have an entire team dedicated to these exact issues that have been doing it for a long time with great success. The least of my concerns, at this stage, is 3rd party adoption due to the business model. They have been working with almost every addon developer (except for PMDG) for the last year and I doubt they will throw that away any time soon. 

Well, heres some more reality: 

 

Stephen Hood, Creative Director of DTG Flight School, joins the Angle of Attack team for their awesome aviatorcast show. Hear what he has to say about the creative and thought process behind DTG Flight School

http://www.flyaoamedia.com/…/aviatorcast-episode-83-flight…/

 

Also, from the DTG facebook page:

 

Don't forget that we will be holding a DTG Flight School ask me anything in partnership with the lovely flight simmers over on Reddit at r/flightsim.

Join us on the 10th March at 19:00 GMT, for your chance to put your questions about DTG Flight School to the projects Creative Director Steve Hood.

In the meantime why not head over to Reddit and get chatting with some fellow ‪aviation geeks.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/

"But it will be interesting as far as add-ons go, & where they are to be found.

So, if we get the sim from Steam, are we then limited to Steam DLC's, & will the same apply to the Windows Store downloads?"

 

Hi Robin, some great points, especially regarding if we are compromised by choosing one platform over the other. I'm not sure this will necessarily limit us thought. I mean PMDG has FSX: SE installers even though the DLC content isn't bought from Steam, please anybody confirm, but I'm pretty sure this is the case.

 

Cheers,

Dave.

 

 

I hope they make the flight school a real training environment with IFR training and what not...

 

Hi Manny,

 

LAPL and PPL courses are supported, I've not seen any confirmation of Instrument Rating courses so I wouldn't get your hopes up with the two basic aircraft on offer!

 

But one would assume that they could grow Flight School with additional add-ons in the future although they have stated 3PD is not supported on Flight School.

 

I suspect you'll need to wait for DTG Flight Simulator which has been confirmed that training courses would be built upon, so IR sounds like is could be a candidate for this.

 

Cheers,

Dave.

 

 

Looking at the answers given in the "Ask Me Anything" on Reddit yesterday evening I noticed that Steve Hood stated that the two planes in Flight School will be Piper Super Cub and Piper Cherokee.

 

No problem with that at all.

I'm sure that it will be fun, as we will have both a high wing & a low wing to play with.

Obviously different characteristics to learn.

So i just saw on the reddit AMA that the other aircraft will be the Piper Cherokee in addition to the Piper Cub. One cant help but wonder if A2A had a hand in this. 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/49uuvr/i_am_steve_hood_creative_director_for_dtg_flight/?sort=qa

Yeah i checked all the answers. Sadly for me, my interest is more for the flight simulator and it's too early to get specific answers about that. A good chunk of the answers given in the AMA are also things we already saw, or statements used by Martin before too.

Anyway, the only real info i found is that they are going to use a new text to speech for the ATC in Flight School (so i assume for the flight sim too). And the confirmation that for the Flight Sim they will try to update airport and navigation datas, plus landclass and so on.

Our partnership means that we will using and evolved version of Orbx Simulation Systems’ FTX Global technology for scenery in DTG Flight School and DTG Flight Simulator. 

 

- Martin 

 

----------------------

Note the 'WE'

 

Do not tell me  - DLC City coming soon on Steam !!