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Chris Knipe

Something strange, the 777 can do mid-flight refueling :-)

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Hi all,

 

Yes - I finally baught the 777 and have a few hours on the clock, but really still learning, a LOT... 

 

Anyways, just thought I'd mention this, I'm fairly sure this is a bug (not sure if it's mentioned before).  When you are in mid flight, you can use Ground Operations on the FMC's to refuel the aircraft :-)  I saw the fuel boarding, and stopped ground operations immediately, so I'm not sure whether it's going to start opening doors and what not too... 

 

Perhaps, Ground Operations, should stick to being available, on the ground  :dance:

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I'm fairly sure this is a bug

 

A software bug is an error, flaw, failure or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways.

 

Ground ops being clearly named something indicative of being used on the ground, I wouldn't exactly call it a bug. You can change the payload on the PAYLOAD page mid-flight, too, which is something not entirely realistic, too. All the same, I'll pass it to the team.

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So much for "as real as it gets" I suppose....  :fool:

 

You do know that PMDG tries very hard to make their product as real as possible.  Why not just leave it at your original post?

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So much for "as real as it gets" I suppose....

 

As long as we're talking realism, you're not going to get a pilot accessing a non-existent ground ops page that works with non existent doors and fuel pages. Forcing ground ops to start in the air wouldn't be at all realistic. In my eyes, it's more intentionally antagonistic than anything - similar to trying to put the gear down at Mach .78 and wondering if the plane will save you from the action that is clearly not appropriate for the situation.

 

Given the name, it's very clear that it shouldn't be forced to active in the air, but we wanted to give you access to the page so that you could set up the turn time and so on while still flying. I already said I'd pass it on to the team to see if we can schedule adding in a little protection from it being activated. I appreciate that you're that invested in helping to improve the product. Still, I think your comment is a little out of line. Invalidating all the realism in the product because you're activating a page meant for ground ops (and named as such) is a little bit excessive.

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Given the name, it's very clear that it shouldn't be forced to active in the air, but we wanted to give you access to the page so that you could set up the turn time and so on while still flying. I already said I'd pass it on to the team to see if we can schedule adding in a little protection from it being activated. I appreciate that you're that invested in helping to improve the product. Still, I think your comment is a little out of line. Invalidating all the realism in the product because you're activating a page meant for ground ops (and named as such) is a little bit excessive.

 

Yes - given the name, it's JUST as clear that it shouldn't be available in the air (afaik, the same could be said about the payloads too) - your comments really can go both ways, very easily. It all just depends which way you look at it.

 

Instead, you opt to treat me like a little child, not knowing what a bug is?  I'm rather going to refrain from saying anything else on this matter.  Will be the last time I "attempt" to report a "bug" to PMDG, that's for sure.

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Yes - given the name, it's JUST as clear that it shouldn't be available in the air (afaik, the same could be said about the payloads too) - your comments really can go both ways, very easily. It all just depends which way you look at it.

 

Perhaps - but keep in mind that someone might have taken off with the wrong payload, and, instead of starting over entirely, would like to just make a quick adjustment. Perhaps they want to change various items for reasons I can't think of. I don't think they should be unnecessarily prohibited from doing that.

 

 

 


Instead, you opt to treat me like a little child, not knowing what a bug is?  I'm rather going to refrain from saying anything else on this matter.  Will be the last time I "attempt" to report a "bug" to PMDG, that's for sure.

 

I'm sorry if you felt that way, but that wasn't my intention. If I was truly treating you like a child, I wouldn't have said that I would mention it to the team. If I truly was being dismissive in that way I wouldn't have distracted the team with it, but I did (and they're a rather busy group).

 

I get the realism thing. I really do. My hardware used to send spikes out that would set the gear handle to down unintentionally during flights. I'd catch it quickly enough that it wouldn't cause any issues, but my feeling of being there was damaged. My flight was 'tainted' and it was no longer perfectly realistic. All the same, we all have to keep in mind that we're flying a computer. By its very nature, it's allowing us to experience things we normally wouldn't. Once again - I've reported what you've noticed to the team.

 

If this is your last attempt to report something to us, then I'm sorry. I wouldn't call it an appropriate reaction, but it's your choice. I've more than once told you that I've passed it to the team to look into. I challenge to you find any other developer who's this interactive with their customers, on a one-to-one basis. Sorry for the miscommunication, all the same.

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To be fair to PMDG, having these available in the air can be handy when you are testing things out or simulating failures etc.

 

I used the FUEL page to intentionally run the 777 out of fuel, just to see what would happen. Just because they are there, doesn't mean you have to use them though.

 

If you want something that is 100% realistic, go buy a 777 from Boeing.

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If you want something that is 100% realistic, go buy a 777 from Boeing.

 

Now, that is an answer that made me laugh this morning! For that I am eternally thankful :)

 

I can fully understand having access to such stuff while flying, even when it is not 100% realism... As has already been said, we are not sitting behind the controls of the real deal now, are we? Furthermore, the PMDG versions of the 777 are by far the closest simulation of the aircraft outside a real-world level-d simulator or the real aircraft for that matter...

 

A

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To be fair to PMDG, having these available in the air can be handy when you are testing things out or simulating failures etc.

 

(...)

 

 

... and this makes "auto-fuel" a cheat in the very best sense of the word, similar to a TOGA clickspot and a "ZFW auto-fill" for the CDU. (Has anyone ever requested to remove the time acceleration clickspot from the B777???)

 

I would like to see these kinds of things preserved. (Heck, I would even add a VSD in midflight, if I ever found one in the T7 livery options!    :P   )

 

Oliver Märtens (Maertens)

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So much for "as real as it gets" I suppose....  :fool:

I don't know of a single Level D sim where changing fuel and payload in flight is inhibited. Do you expect the PMDG 777 to be more "real" than a full flight sim?

 

Sometimes inhibiting things which might be useful on the grounds of "realism" is actually a restriction in a simulator. Somewhile ago I had problems with OOMs in the Capt Sim 707. I had autosave on so I could load the flight from where it crashed, but the CIVA INS would not align in flight, quick align wouldn't woork, so my navigation was screwed and the flight lost. I asked the developer whether he could enable the quick align feature in flight and he said, no, that would be unrealistic.  :mad:  So is loading a saved flight state in flight but it is there because it's useful.

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Now, that is an answer that made me laugh this morning! For that I am eternally thankful :)

 

I can fully understand having access to such stuff while flying, even when it is not 100% realism... As has already been said, we are not sitting behind the controls of the real deal now, are we? Furthermore, the PMDG versions of the 777 are by far the closest simulation of the aircraft outside a real-world level-d simulator or the real aircraft for that matter...

 

A

HI folks,

 

been away from the forums for quite a while now, but I see I haven't missed anything new.  SSDD

 

Aentwis made a very interesting statement concerning access to features in the FMC during flight.  If memory serves, don't the test flight crews for Boeing (the people who sit in the passenger cabin glued to computers) access a lot of the technical data during a flight to measure responses, functions, etc. of the aircraft?   Could we stretch our imagination just a smidge and say that accessing the FMC pages that are intended for ground use only, kind of simulate "tests" while in the air?  There is a demonstrator livery (complete with drogue off the tail) that we could assume would be perfect for such test flights?

 

I know, it's a stretch , but at least PMDG could sit back and say "hmmm, never thought of that, great idea, let's keep it!"

 

No?  Ok, I'll shut up now. :)

 

-Jim

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I see what you're saying Jim but Kyle's point is that the ground ops page is not in the real aircraft at all, it's a sim function. I could understand this being a true bug if someone reported that they, for example, tried to adjust the gross weight on the INIT page in flight and it refueled the aircraft - that would be a fault. But the ground ops function isn't simulating a real function, it's purely a sim mechanism. So the answer is don't use it in flight! I have to say, I've found the fact that you can do this useful when I'm flying the aircraft in muck around/testing mode. But if we're complaining about the lack of realism of a mechanism that isn't in the real aircraft anyway and is there purely to accommodate the sim environment, then why not get rid of the ground ops page altogether and do it through the FSX menu? Or develop a virtual refueling man with some nice overalls who will only come out to the aircraft on the ground? I think calling this is a bug is a bit too fussy.

 

Also, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but do harden up a bit, Chris. Kyle just answers questions to the best of his ability, he doesn't attack people.

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