err, paying to be a beta tester...

Hey, Ken. Will one of the add on 3rd party FMS units do any good or offer any improvements with these Carenado products with the missing pages and funny coding?

Like this or Ernie's FMC.

 

http://www.fspilotshop.com/eric-marciano-external-fmc-for-fsx-p-5938.html?utm_campaign=160227&utm_content=imageclick&utm_medium=email&utm_source=PilotShop&utm_term=bluecta&osCsid=omh0spdn6bkniejvjkc0li2a01

 

Ray

I don't know I have never tried to use Easy FMS.

Ken,

 

"Carenado states that what they implement is implemented correctly, in this case I call foul."

 

Just wondering if you purchased the CJ2 and tested the Cj2 DIR function?

I did purchase the CJ2, and I have tested the LNAV functions. I can tell you, with certainty, that the Carenado implementation for DTO is wrong. The implementation for the GTN 750/650 is precisely what the actual regs require. 

 

When ATC tells you to fly direct to a point, they do not mean around or near a point, as Carenado seems to think. 

"The implementation for the GTN 750/650 is precisely what the actual regs require."

 

Just wondering, what are the regs?

 

Did you do a trouble report to Carenado and get a reply from them?

I don't think the regs specifically say "Direct to must take you direct to..."

 

But...

 

(a) When an ATC clearance has been obtained, no pilot in command may deviate from that clearance unless an amended clearance is obtained, an emergency exists, or the deviation is in response to a traffic alert and collision avoidance system resolution advisory.

 

So, while there is no reg that says DTO must work properly on your nav, to comply you'd need a nav source that does what it's supposed to do.

"So, while there is no reg that says DTO must work properly on your nav, to comply you'd need a nav source that does what it's supposed to do."

 

 

Is there more than one way to go DIR TO ?

For example,when using NAV (VOR) source or FSS/CDU to go to a VOR or using FMS/CDU to go DIR to a waypoint?

I don't think the regs specifically say "Direct to must take you direct to..."

 

But...

 

(a) When an ATC clearance has been obtained, no pilot in command may deviate from that clearance unless an amended clearance is obtained, an emergency exists, or the deviation is in response to a traffic alert and collision avoidance system resolution advisory.

 

So, while there is no reg that says DTO must work properly on your nav, to comply you'd need a nav source that does what it's supposed to do.

Various regulatory guidance provides for proper method of performing a Direct to leg. Direct is also defined in the Pilot Controller Glossary

DIRECT− Straight line flight between two navigational aids, fixes, points, or any combination thereof. When used by pilots in describing off-airway routes, points defining direct route segments become compulsory reporting points unless the aircraft is under radar contact.

The lateral variation of direct can be taken from various directives, AC 90-100 and AC 90-105 are both good sources and have many references used in those documents regarding specific capability. But, if I am filed as a having a specific RNP capability (ICAO 2012 format) then there is a reasonable expectation that your aircraft will meet the filed performance based navigation.

 

The Rockwell-Collins FMS3000 is capable of exceeding RNP1 requirements of PBN and thus when I execute a Direct to in terminal airspace I can expect I will be within 1nm of the point where direct to was initiated to the point cleared 95% of the time.

 

Most importantly this is not how the Rockwell-Collins FMS3000 operator's guide describes how DIR operates. So it does not operate correctly based on how the manufacture of the actual avionics states it should.

 

The military use to have the procedure called fix-to-fix in which using the RMI and DME or E6B the pilot could manually fly a direct-to between to points on a VOR. The USAF now states in AFMAN 11-217 that fix-to-fix is no longer authorized except under specific guidelines. (Its bold and italicized which means its regulatory.) So even the military understands you can no longer wander off on your own when given direct by ATC.

I did purchase the CJ2, and I have tested the LNAV functions. I can tell you, with certainty, that the Carenado implementation for DTO is wrong. The implementation for the GTN 750/650 is precisely what the actual regs require. 

 

When ATC tells you to fly direct to a point, they do not mean around or near a point, as Carenado seems to think. 

 

Other pilots may want to try the same test.

 

 

When you tested DTO (LNAV) in the CJ2 what exactly did you do to test it?

Were you on a flight plan?

What was the controllers DTO clearance for you that failed in the CJ2?

What do the actual regs say?

How did you determine that the DTO given to you failed the regs?

 

 

Did you send a tech support ticket to Carenado with your test results?

 

Edit:

Did you happen to take screeshots (or do a video) of your LNAV DTO test showing the test procedure and problem?

 

 

The Rockwell-Collins FMS3000 is capable of exceeding RNP1 requirements of PBN and thus when I execute a Direct to in terminal airspace I can expect I will be within 1nm of the point where direct to was initiated to the point cleared 95% of the time.

 

 

Ken,

Just wondering if you purchased the Carenado CJ2 and tested this?

 

 

Edit:

"err, paying to be a beta tester..."

Are you testing for Carenado?

Ok... relax... the DTO that the Carenado does is incorrect. Period. It's just flat out wrong. A direct to will always result in a line between PPOS and the waypoint you're going direct. The PPOS is calculated to take into account intercept turns, but is usually rather close to where you selected the DIR TO.

 

What this addon does is simply activate the leg you pick, which means it flies to intercept the line between the DIR TO leg and the one prior to it.

 

That's incorrect behavior.

"What this addon does is simply activate the leg you pick, which means it flies to intercept the line between the DIR TO leg and the one prior to it."

 

How do I do it (DTO) in CJ2?

In the real aircraft you would press the button labeled DIR, then you would select the leg you are going to go direct to, this will place the leg in the active leg position and provide an opportunity for the pilot to input an intercept course. Once the EXEC button is pressed, the DIR TO becomes active.

In the real aircraft you would press the button labeled DIR, then you would select the leg you are going to go direct to, this will place the leg in the active leg position and provide an opportunity for the pilot to input an intercept course. Once the EXEC button is pressed, the DIR TO becomes active.

 

"VOk... relax... the DTO that the Carenado does is incorrect. Period."

 

 

Did you test it in the Carenado CJ2?

Yes. It doesn't create the direct to leg. Instead it makes the selected leg active, which is not even remotely what a direct to means.

 

Look... I have real-world trainers out there based on Proline 21 emulations... I can assure you, this addon's direct to isn't even close to real-world.

 

Do you even know how a direct to is supposed to work, or are you just wanting to fight with people?