This alpha version seems to be focused in showing some new features, not the final product.

Would you see them to revise the airport area cut out with a knife out of the surrounding landclasse tiles in the final version? And this not only for the two training lesson airports, but for the zillions around the world? 

 

I don't, and even more, I doubt they can do that for the full-blown simulator. It's a basic flaw of the scenery engine used which can be mitigated manually for a single airport (that's what ORBX does with their airports to blend into the surrounding) but not overcome globally, as far as I know.

 

Kind regards, Michael

To me, the exciting point of the new full flight sim (which I honestly expect to be delayed into 2017) is not, how many new features and improvements it will have upon release. The exciting point is that - according to what Dovetail have said and providing initial sales aren't too bad - it will be improved for years to come. If they have a mousebug in VC view - it can be fixed. If they don't have sloped runways - they can be implemented later. If they have bad (i.e. stock FSX/P3D) ATC - they can create a better one or at least have a talk with addon devs to see what they need to add to the SDK to have them create better addons. If icing isn't properly simulated at first - it might be later on. And so on and so forth...

Yes, it would be nice if it had everything they said they were going to look into right out of the box, but the schedule does indeed seem way to tight for that to happen. So I fully expect it to be rather underwhelming at first (just as Flight School seems underwhelming, though not too bad so far). But that doesn't bother me, because the exciting point is: This is FSX WITH A FUTURE as a commercial flight simulator targeted at a general audience. And if we see something, that doesn't work properly, we don't have to wait years (or forever) for some talented individual to 'hack' into legacy code - we have a dedicated development team to speak to and so far it seems they do indeed listen to what we have to say.

On the 'Ask DTG' thread Martin made it pretty clear initially that minimal changes would be made to Flight School other than 64bit, DX11 and a new UI. Now it does appear that DTG may have backtracked on that view somewhat but in general but I don't expect any major changes.

 

In terms of the Flight Sim Martin has already been pretty clear that whilst they have lots of aspirations for it they won't have time to do everything before initial release with further updates planned in the coming year(s). Given the importance of the Christmas market I fully expect them to descope changes to ensure they achieve an initial release before Christmas. This is likely to mean that the initial release of Flight Sim does not have as many changes as might be hoped. In particular I get the impression that anyone who makes use of FSUIPC should skip the initial release since it is likely that the FSUIPC replacement framework built into the product will require further development. All IMHO of course.

To me, the exciting point of the new full flight sim (which I honestly expect to be delayed into 2017) is not, how many new features and improvements it will have upon release. The exciting point is that - according to what Dovetail have said and providing initial sales aren't too bad - it will be improved for years to come. If they have a mousebug in VC view - it can be 

But don't we have already two simulators being based on legacy code, but continually being improved over the years with Prepar3d and X-Plane?  

 

Kind regards, Michael

But don't we have already two simulators being based on legacy code, but continually being improved over the years with Prepar3d and X-Plane?  

 

Kind regards, Michael

 

We do, but P3D isn't targeted at a general audience and as far as I can tell it will remain a niche within the simulation market for the foreseeable future (with high addon prices as a result), while X-Plane simply hasn't achieved to capture a larger audience for whatever reason (overcomplicated UI possibly being one of them). 

 

 

Not my intention to make you feel inferior.

 

Don't worry about it, you didn't make me feel inferior. There's only one thing around here that's inferior and we all know what that is. :smile:

Yes, it would be nice if it had everything they said they were going to look into right out of the box, but the schedule does indeed seem way to tight for that to happen. So I fully expect it to be rather underwhelming at first (just as Flight School seems underwhelming, though not too bad so far). But that doesn't bother me, because the exciting point is: This is FSX WITH A FUTURE as a commercial flight simulator targeted at a general audience. And if we see something, that doesn't work properly, we don't have to wait years (or forever) for some talented individual to 'hack' into legacy code - we have a dedicated development team to speak to and so far it seems they do indeed listen to what we have to say.

Fully agree!

 

And that is precisely what Martin said:

 

Our biggest limitation is time. There are lots of things we would like to do but we also want to get the new sim out some time before 2050. This is why have been very open about how not everything we plan to do will be there day one. 

 

- Martin 

Yessssss - hopefully release before my death.   :smile:

We do, but P3D isn't targeted at a general audience and as far as I can tell it will remain a niche within the simulation market for the foreseeable future (with high addon prices as a result). 

I wouldn't consider a simulator approaching 50 % usage this year according to an Aerosoft poll and ORBX actual usage data (now 44%) a niche.

 

Kind regards, Michael

I wouldn't consider a simulator approaching 50 % usage this year according to an Aerosoft poll and ORBX actual usage data (now 44%) a niche.

 

Kind regards, Michael

 

That's why I wrote "simulation market" - within the realm of flightsims P3D certainly is a major player. But it caters to existing simmers and doesn't really expand the market of flightsims in general.

For instance I'm looking at steam stats right now: FSX:SE has 1745 active players at the moment, X-Plane doesn't make it into the top 100, while Euro Truck Simulator 2, which is a decent truck sim with game-like elements to it, has 8400 active players. And Truck Simming hadn't even been a genre before the Euro Truck people came along!

Okay, that's certainly true. And I fully agree flight simulation could need a good boost within the simulation market to regain the position it once had.

 

Kind regards, Michael

That's why I wrote "simulation market" - within the realm of flightsims P3D certainly is a major player. But it caters to existing simmers and doesn't really expand the market of flightsims in general.

For instance I'm looking at steam stats right now: FSX:SE has 1745 active players at the moment, X-Plane doesn't make it into the top 100,

 

That's not a good metric for X-Plane, even if we want to compare "newcomers to flight sims" with FSX on Steam. There is actually an incentive not to buy the Steam version, because you can't get access to new beta versions that way. Betas are only available with the retail disk/digital download version purchased outside Steam. Not everyone knows that, but some newcomers are aware of it, and it probably has an effect on the activity stats. 

 

Regardless, we all know that FSX is more popular on Steam and elsewhere. X-Plane has always been something of an underground alternative, although interest has been picking up lately. I just wouldn't put too much faith in those Steam numbers. 

 

 

I just wouldn't put too much faith in those Steam numbers. 

 

You're obviously right - those were the only numbers I could find in a hurry, but they don't prove much when it comes to the popularity of different flight sims, since we simply cannot know how many people play FS9, FSX boxed, P3D or X-Plane Non-Steam. I only intended to use those numbers to show that a well made and marketed simulator such as ETS2 can attract lots of new people to simulation genres in principle. 

 

I did notice increasing interest towards X-Plane lately judging from topics on r/flightsim, probably due to the IXEG release. If DTFS fails, X-Plane might become more than an underground alternative...

 

 

This is FSX WITH A FUTURE as a commercial flight simulator targeted at a general audience.

 

Very well said and an excellent post.

 

That is the big picture and long-term view if DTG is successful but they will need to cater not only to gamers and newbies but also to the flight sim enthusiasts, hobbyists and developers who add so much to this hobby. That remains to be seen and they have a lot of work ahead to get there.

What is P3D?

 

"This is FSX WITH A FUTURE as a commercial flight simulator targeted at a general audience."

 

 

What is P3D?
 
"This is FSX WITH A FUTURE as a commercial flight simulator targeted at a general audience."

 

ESP with a future?  :wink:

 

What does "general audience" mean? LM has been very clear about who their audience is and is not. It seems to me they exclude a large chunk of the general population with those red X's on their licensing page.

 

I wonder what you think about Espen's (Coolsky) blog post:

http://coolsky.no/blog/assorted-blogs/497-future-flightsim-part-3-summary