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Jessica Bannister-Pearce

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ESP with a future?  :wink:

 

What does "general audience" mean? LM has been very clear about who their audience is and is not. It seems to me they exclude a large chunk of the general population with those red X's on their licensing page.

 

I wonder what you think about Espen's (Coolsky) blog post:

http://coolsky.no/blog/assorted-blogs/497-future-flightsim-part-3-summary

 

Hmmm... I never saw that interview before. Good read. All 3 parts actually!


Let me guess.... you want 64bit. 

Josh Daniels-Johannson

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Are we really gonna do this ###### again about P3D?

 

People should have the right to compare and discuss without this crap being brought up.

 

Whoever wrote that blog, welcome to four years ago. Anything further will just get this thread closed.

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I'm with Avidean on this one, I simply can't (and won't) support two updated "Flight Sim" general aviation/commercial type simulators with my third party $$$.

 

DCS is different, as it actually has weapons, fantastic damage modelling, missions etc, but I ditched FSX for XPLANE and then ditched that for Prepar3D.  It's a small target, general peace time flight simulation enjoyment.... I love it, but can only deal with one.  DTG's for me broke third party support simply for their own gain.  I don't understand how any of us expect great advancement when it's the same decades old engine.

 

I love what LM is doing with P3D, but why in the world do I want or need another developer tinkering with the same old code, stealing away current great third party developers just to sell two versions of the same thing?

 

We used to have Sierra, Looking Glass, FLY! guys etc all with different engines along side Microsoft's looking to win....

 

Now we just argue over four versions (FSX, FSXSE, P3D, DTG)  of the same thing ha.... why do we do this?

 

I want things to progress, of course I do, but using the same old engine, how can we expect a revolution??  P3D is already a great evolution under progress we can enjoy today.  DTG should have announced development of a new engine, and done it right from the start, and given us something to look forward to in 2017... not a demo in June/2016 and a rushed "sim" version in December/2016 of FSX:SE w/ ORBX Global and a UI facelift.

 

I simply wish DTG would have gone a new route if they were going to break current addon support anyway.

 

Nothing I have seen looks better than what I currently fly, and yes, I pre-purchased Flight School, but wonder why bother?

 

Just some thoughts, not flaming anybody or anything.

 

EDIT: I re-read my post, and want to clarify, I 100% support new development in our hobby, and will put my $$$ where my mouth is, but I fear DTG took the easy way out, bought an old engine we all trust, and now is putting the lipstick on the pig.  I wish them well, and hope I'm wrong in the long run, and if so they'll get my money :-)

Edited by be77solo
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I'm with Avidean on this one, I simply can't (and won't) support two updated "Flight Sim" general aviation/commercial type simulators with my third party $$$.

 

There is actually nothing as good as DCS World and il2 Battle of Stalingrad when it comes to flight dynamics, and other aspects of flight simulation, but X-Plane comes really close, as I was able to experiment with a delightful Me109 G-2 I recently acquired and tweaked and then the designer is upgrading - very close to the performance of the similar models in DCS and IL2 BoS :-)

 

For IFR I use ELITE or Aerowinx PSX....

Edited by n4gix
Removed excessive quote.

Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Lenovo TB310FU 9,5" Tablet for Navigraph and some available external FMCs or AVITABs

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This is what i expected from a new Flight Sim, instead of a recycled FSX

In terms of graphic of course:

 

https://youtu.be/KXPfxBYCDsA

the simmers dream

cheers

tom


Sometimes I have to admit to myself:
"Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"

 

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the simmers dream

cheers

tom

Speachless.

 

I've been following the development of Outerra for years now. I don't get why no one took up the challenge and made and distributed a working FlightSim based on this engine which would blow away all FSXs, P3Ds, XPs and DFSs within a year - and could earn the maker a fortune. 

 

Kind regards, Michael


MSFS, Beta tester of Simdocks, SPAD.neXt, and FS-FlightControl

Intel i7-13700K / AsRock Z790 / Crucial 32 GB DDR 5 / ASUS RTX 4080OC 16GB / BeQuiet ATX 1000W / WD m.2 NVMe 2TB (System) / WD m.2 NVMe 4 TB (MSFS) / WD HDD 10 TB / XTOP+Saitek hardware panel /  LG 34UM95 3440 x 1440  / HP Reverb 1 (2160x2160 per eye) / Win 11

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Speachless.

 

I've been following the development of Outerra for years now. I don't get why no one took up the challenge and made and distributed a working FlightSim based on this engine which would blow away all FSXs, P3Ds, XPs and DFSs within a year - and could earn the maker a fortune. 

 

Earn a fortune? With a niche market like flight simulation? Do you seriously believe someone will ever invest more than 250 millions of dollars (average investement for games like GTAV or Call of Duty) just to make a bunch of picky, eternally insatisfied people here happy? Do you seriously believe whichever new flight simulator, no matter how close ro real life, graphically stunning, built on whichever advanced graphic engine, would have some real chance to sell 60 millions of copies? Or 30 millions of copies? And, if not, how much do you think the developer should charge in order to make their investment profitable and stay within the entertainment market?

 

There are indeed professional simulators. The only problem is that they are intended for real world and cost thousands of dollars. Yes, better alternatives than ESP already exist, problem is they are not worldwide (mostly limited to small areas) nor are dedicated to civilian aviation, which is #1 requirement in the "What would you like to see in a new flight simulator" list, especially for all of you who can't live without the PMDG 777. There are also other advanced platforms like X-Plane and Aerofly, which however received so far little or insufficient attention from 3rd party developers for a lot of reasons.

 

The only serious argument we all should use here, instead of feeding stupid interplatform bickering and childish religious wars, is that this market needs to grow, attract new users and resources, if we want to hope to see something better in the future. It is not simply asking the flight simulator of our dreams that someone will at some point bring it to us.

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Speachless.

 

I've been following the development of Outerra for years now. I don't get why no one took up the challenge and made and distributed a working FlightSim based on this engine which would blow away all FSXs, P3Ds, XPs and DFSs within a year - and could earn the maker a fortune. 

 

Kind regards, Michael

 

Michael,

 

the answer could be something like this...

 

....because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know....

United States Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld at a Pentagon briefing On February 12, 2002

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns

 

:smile:

tom


Sometimes I have to admit to myself:
"Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"

 

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Earn a fortune? With a niche market like flight simulation? Do you seriously believe someone will ever invest more than 250 millions of dollars (average investement for games like GTAV or Call of Duty) just to make a bunch of picky, eternally insatisfied people here happy? Do you seriously believe whichever new flight simulator, no matter how close ro real life, graphically stunning, built on whichever advanced graphic engine, would have some real chance to sell 60 millions of copies? Or 30 millions of copies? And, if not, how much do you think the developer should charge in order to make their investment profitable and stay within the entertainment market?

 

There are indeed professional simulators. The only problem is that they are intended for real world and cost thousands of dollars. Yes, better alternatives than ESP already exist, problem is they are not worldwide (mostly limited to small areas) nor are dedicated to civilian aviation, which is #1 requirement in the "What would you like to see in a new flight simulator" list, especially for all of you who can't live without the PMDG 777. There are also other advanced platforms like X-Plane and Aerofly, which however received so far little or insufficient attention from 3rd party developers for a lot of reasons.

 

The only serious argument we all should use here, instead of feeding stupid interplatform bickering and childish religious wars, is that this market needs to grow, attract new users and resources, if we want to hope to see something better in the future. It is not simply asking the flight simulator of our dreams that someone will at some point bring it to us.

For a while now, I always believed that PMDG deserved their own simulator.  The quality, expertise and technical know-how of the PMDG is too good for any simulator right now.  It's kinda like putting a Lamborghini on a go-kart track right now.  Imagine if PMDG was able to work out their aircraft unhindered by pesky old coding or coding that has been bandaged up for far too long?  When I fly a PMDG aircraft, I feel like I am as close as I will ever get to actually sitting in a real life version of their aircraft but shutter at the thought of whether my sim and the way it's setup, can handle it.  Granted my rig nowadays is sufficient for the task, but when you roll in the additional scenery and weather that had to be bought to bring it all in-line with their fantastic creations, I still get the feeling that their aircraft just belong in their own environment, hence the reasoning behind their own simulator.

 

I haven't seen one person lately with the same level of coding knowledge and inside intellect who can relate to the pains and intricacies of developing a simulator that can be on-par with the likes of say a Level-D Simulator.  For what we have available these days for flight simulation is it.  It is nice to see refreshing developments going on but it all needs to be put together.  Outerra has put together a nice simulation environment, but I wouldn't agree it makes for a great flight sim just yet. 

 

Supposedly, Robert Randazzo has stated that they are utilizing and looking further in to technologies that they would like to implement into their aircraft, which is great, but for us, what does the performance impact look like?  We don't know and that is the risk.  We can keep guessing until the cows come home or we can exercise patience and trust that the developers can keep advancing the technologies and design to bring us one step closer to the simulator we all want.

 

The last statement from the previous post is unnecessary.  Yes, it would be nice to attract new users, but think about their ages and think about what they have grown up with.  Console systems are their mainstay.  Look at the games they play.  They are well aware of the awesome graphics potentials but if you want them to move on to something more productive like flight simulation, they want to see and experience the same exact environments or else they will lose interest.

 

My opinion is that some sim developers need to separate the "game" from the simulation.  Anyone who has used flight simulator software for a long time knows it isn't a game and shouldn't be marketed as such, but I do see gaming elements being brought forward and I believe it is sending the wrong message.


Engage, research, inform and make your posts count! -Jim Morvay

Origin EON-17SLX - Under the hood: Intel Core i7 7700K at 4.2GHz (Base) 4.6GHz (overclock), nVidia GeForce GTX-1080 Pascal w/8gb vram, 32gb (2x16) Crucial 2400mhz RAM, 3840 x 2160 17.3" IPS w/G-SYNC, Samsung 950 EVO 256GB PCIe m.2 SSD (Primary), Samsung 850 EVO 500gb M.2 (Sim Drive), MS Windows 10 Professional 64-Bit

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Speachless.

 

I've been following the development of Outerra for years now. I don't get why no one took up the challenge and made and distributed a working FlightSim based on this engine which would blow away all FSXs, P3Ds, XPs and DFSs within a year - and could earn the maker a fortune. 

 

Kind regards, Michael

 

This might interest you:

 

http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/84353-orbx-and-outerra-thoughts

  • Upvote 3

Cheers, Bert

AMD Ryzen 5900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 Ti, Windows 11 Home 64 bit, MSFS

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My opinion is that some sim developers need to separate the "game" from the simulation.  Anyone who has used flight simulator software for a long time knows it isn't a game and shouldn't be marketed as such, but I do see gaming elements being brought forward and I believe it is sending the wrong message.

 

Again, gamers vs simmers.

If you want the "right message", meaning professional message, to be brought forward by developers, then choose professional simulators or go real world. Of course, prepare your credit card adequately.

This is entertainment. You can use your simulator more or less seriously, more or less close to real life, with more or less detailed and advanced addons, but it will all remain what it is: entertainment.  Period.

No amount of wishful thinking will change reality.

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Again, gamers vs simmers.

If you want the "right message", meaning professional message, to be brought forward by developers, then choose professional simulators or go real world. Of course, prepare your credit card adequately.

This is entertainment. You can use your simulator more or less seriously, more or less close to real life, with more or less detailed and advanced addons, but it will all remain what it is: entertainment.  Period.

No amount of wishful thinking will change reality.

I personally don't need a message, as I have been using flight simulation software for a very long time, think pre-Doom era. :)

 

I was speaking about how the simulator can be marketed.  My opinion is that simulator and gaming shouldn't be in the same sentence.

 

Bringing the professional simulator environment into the home computer is great.  There is no denying that, but when you start adding in awards, accomplishments and similar gaming elements, you are taking away from what a simulation should be.  I work in the engineering field as a full-time job and as such, we do run simulations, but from a statistical and mathematical standpoint, and while there is room for error, and we can either be successful or a failure, it is at no point in time, a game.  You sit in a professional simulator, fly an aircraft and something goes wrong and you crash....was that a game?  So again, bringing the experience of flying a simulated aircraft with all of the precision of a real-life aircraft into your own home is to be not only fun (or entertaining as you say), but educational.

 

Nowadays as I sit in traffic on the way home from work, I can watch aircraft come in on final during a windy day and actually know what they are going through, only they are doing it in real life, no second chances, no extra lives.

I think John V. summed that up pretty well (reply #2) and I'd take what he says as information well received.


Engage, research, inform and make your posts count! -Jim Morvay

Origin EON-17SLX - Under the hood: Intel Core i7 7700K at 4.2GHz (Base) 4.6GHz (overclock), nVidia GeForce GTX-1080 Pascal w/8gb vram, 32gb (2x16) Crucial 2400mhz RAM, 3840 x 2160 17.3" IPS w/G-SYNC, Samsung 950 EVO 256GB PCIe m.2 SSD (Primary), Samsung 850 EVO 500gb M.2 (Sim Drive), MS Windows 10 Professional 64-Bit

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What did John V say? Not everyone has access to OrbX forums.


Rob Jones.

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I was speaking about how the simulator can be marketed.  My opinion is that simulator and gaming shouldn't be in the same sentence.

 

Bringing the professional simulator environment into the home computer is great.  There is no denying that, but when you start adding in awards, accomplishments and similar gaming elements, you are taking away from what a simulation should be. 

 

It's all about how much you are comfortable to spend, my friend. Don't expect any developer will ever invest millions of dollars and years of work and research just to market a professional simulator for an entertainment price, when their target audience, despite all our wishful thinking, is still a bunch of passionate users with a negligible share within the gaming market. This is simply not going to happen.

We must live with what we have and try to use it the best way we can. Instead of dreaming of the impossible, my opinion is that it should be much better to support the few developers who are making efforts to bring this hobby a step further. How? With our own money.

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It's all about how much you are comfortable to spend, my friend. Don't expect any developer will ever invest millions of dollars and years of work and research just to market a professional simulator for an entertainment price, when their target audience, despite all our wishful thinking, is still a bunch of passionate users with a negligible share within the gaming market. This is simply not going to happen.

We must live with what we have and try to use it the best way we can. Instead of dreaming of the impossible, my opinion is that it should be much better to support the few developers who are making efforts to bring this hobby a step further. How? With our own money.

I was never really comfortable in spending over a thousand dollars so far to use P3D to the extent it is, but I enjoy it and not for it's entertainment, but as a learning tool.  Maybe I'm just weird that way in taking up a hobby such as this and all the while, may never be able to set foot in a real aircraft's cockpit, but hey, that's reality right?


Engage, research, inform and make your posts count! -Jim Morvay

Origin EON-17SLX - Under the hood: Intel Core i7 7700K at 4.2GHz (Base) 4.6GHz (overclock), nVidia GeForce GTX-1080 Pascal w/8gb vram, 32gb (2x16) Crucial 2400mhz RAM, 3840 x 2160 17.3" IPS w/G-SYNC, Samsung 950 EVO 256GB PCIe m.2 SSD (Primary), Samsung 850 EVO 500gb M.2 (Sim Drive), MS Windows 10 Professional 64-Bit

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