23 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Commercial and militairy customers are there primairy target ; we are the beta testers after release of each version/update

And to prove that theory just watch closely how LM announces V4.

3 hours ago, Green parks said:

Flight simmers ARE the 'target market'. 

P3D is but a component of a much larger LM product line branded 'Scios'

Look here..  http://lockheedmartin.com/us/what-we-do/aerospace-defense/training-logistics.html

 

Now tell me how many avsim members are their target market for that kind of kit? :p

Some people here think in too limited a fashion.  We think in terms of P3D v DTG sometimes for example, when in reality the markets are worlds apart and there are parts of it closed to us.

Need an example to illustrate that?  Look at the ITEC conference schedule going on now... 

https://www.itec.co.uk/#/

Look at all the speakers and exhibitors there and look at who its aimed at .... the military.  

Where are LM? Where are DTG? Thats right...

 

Also note the numbers of other companies there with competing products/services which you and I will never ever be getting near - because we really arent their target market!

17 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

P3D is but a component of a much larger LM product line branded 'Scios'

Look here..  http://lockheedmartin.com/us/what-we-do/aerospace-defense/training-logistics.html

 

Now tell me how many avsim members are their target market for that kind of kit? :p

Some people here think in too limited a fashion.  We think in terms of P3D v DTG sometimes for example, when in reality the markets are worlds apart and there are parts of it closed to us.

Need an example to illustrate that?  Look at the ITEC conference schedule going on now... 

https://www.itec.co.uk/#/

Look at all the speakers and exhibitors there and look at who its aimed at .... the military.  

Where are LM? Where are DTG? Thats right...

 

Also note the numbers of other companies there with competing products/services which you and I will never ever be getting near - because we really arent their target market!

Very true. Its always been like that. However, would P3D be what it is today without our community and all the devs and addons?  I really dont think so. It would still be a core simulator with some pretty default stuff, but I doubt they would have advance as much as they have with all the feedback they get from the entire conglomerate. We are just a small slice of the pie, yet a very important piece otherwise they would have ditched all of us a long time ago.  To show its that important, look at what the news and features are on prepar3d.com. Yes its our devs. The ones making addons for our consumer market. 

15 minutes ago, HighTowers said:

would P3D be what it is today without our community and all the devs and addons?  I really dont think so. It would still be a core simulator with some pretty default stuff, but I doubt they would have advance as much as they have with all the feedback they get from the entire conglomerate. We are just a small slice of the pie

Absolutely correct, we are a useful tool for LM that aids the development of P3D for their target market, (which isnt us!)

58 minutes ago, TheFlightSimGuy said:

Do you have any proof to the contrary? 

 

Only place you see P3D is with flight simmers. Forums. Flight sim stores. Flight sim blogs, online articles and flight sim magazines. 

All the add-one are from....guess who...flight sim developers. Textures, sky, ground, trees, aircraft, etc. 

And the only place you see it is when it's been screenshoted (sic) by flight simmers sharing the entertainment value of it on forums specifically set up for those flight simmers who use flight sim for entertainment to show how they use it for entertainment. 

 

No? :)

 

 

7 minutes ago, Green parks said:

 

Only place you see P3D is with flight simmers. Forums. Flight sim stores. Flight sim blogs, online articles and flight sim magazines. 

All the add-one are from....guess who...flight sim developers. Textures, sky, ground, trees, aircraft, etc. 

And the only place you see it is when it's been screenshoted (sic) by flight simmers sharing the entertainment value of it on forums specifically set up for those flight simmers who use flight sim for entertainment to show how they use it for entertainment. 

 

No? :)

 

 

So you only see a tiny proportion of an iceberg...does the rest not exist?  Anyway, *sniff* , I smell trolls....

1 minute ago, Green parks said:

 

Only place you see P3D is with flight simmers. Forums. Flight sim stores. Flight sim blogs, online articles and flight sim magazines. 

All the add-one are from....guess who...flight sim developers. Textures, sky, ground, trees, aircraft, etc. 

And the only place you see it is when it's been screenshoted (sic) by flight simmers sharing the entertainment value of it on forums specifically set up for those flight simmers who use flight sim for entertainment to show how they use it for entertainment. 

 

No? :)

 

 

Exactly! And ORBX and Carenado are currently featured on their website. We also know that they are working with other addon developers like REX etc. who are all under the NDA.

Now I don't know about you guys but if I was a Commercial or Military customer, I would not need any of these addons. And it's also quite evident that all those addon developers are creating content for ENTERTAINMENT! I mean, what on earth is the use of an airport with 3D grass and bird sounds???

Academic licences may not be where all the money is at, but it sure as hell is a chunk of it! Pretty sure that Academic Licences outnumber all other licences by a large number! Price differences aside, no company would ignore that many customers. So don't sell ourselves short, none of these companies would have a successful product out there if it weren't for the "Entertainment Value" of FSX.

LM Prepar3d website has got a new layout.

23 minutes ago, RancidViper said:

Exactly! And ORBX and Carenado are currently featured on their website. We also know that they are working with other addon developers like REX etc. who are all under the NDA.

Now I don't know about you guys but if I was a Commercial or Military customer, I would not need any of these addons. And it's also quite evident that all those addon developers are creating content for ENTERTAINMENT! I mean, what on earth is the use of an airport with 3D grass and bird sounds???

Academic licences may not be where all the money is at, but it sure as hell is a chunk of it! Pretty sure that Academic Licences outnumber all other licences by a large number! Price differences aside, no company would ignore that many customers. So don't sell ourselves short, none of these companies would have a successful product out there if it weren't for the "Entertainment Value" of FSX.

Commercial and military customers could hit the vas limit easily if you have large scenarios and complicated aircraft systems. Also if you make p3d perform better in performance that means you can save money on hardware and that is also a plus to any customers not just us simmers.

2 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

And to prove that theory just watch closely how LM announces V4.

I dont think they'll announce anything it will just appear as available one day.  Like Rob said, under Wes Bard there was some openness, and I recall developer blogs detailing features weeks before release for example.  With v3 that all disappeared, and now beta images/vids are restricted heavily as well according to Rob A.

 

I preferred the open model, but this is LM's party, and with a 5wk old and a full time job I hardly have time to fly anyway even if it was released today :p

31 minutes ago, RancidViper said:

Exactly! And ORBX and Carenado are currently featured on their website. We also know that they are working with other addon developers like REX etc. who are all under the NDA.

Now I don't know about you guys but if I was a Commercial or Military customer, I would not need any of these addons. And it's also quite evident that all those addon developers are creating content for ENTERTAINMENT! I mean, what on earth is the use of an airport with 3D grass and bird sounds???

Academic licences may not be where all the money is at, but it sure as hell is a chunk of it! Pretty sure that Academic Licences outnumber all other licences by a large number! Price differences aside, no company would ignore that many customers. So don't sell ourselves short, none of these companies would have a successful product out there if it weren't for the "Entertainment Value" of FSX.

Exactly, so if you want all of that, you want an "Entertainment" simulator. That is explicitly what Lockheed Martin says their sim isnt for. If you want "Entertainment" there is a sim that is being developed by people who are actually trying to listen to you as a customer, not a beta tester.  

4 minutes ago, 777200lrf said:

Commercial and military customers could hit the vas limit easily if you have large scenarios and complicated aircraft systems. Also if you make p3d perform better in performance that means you can save money on hardware and that is also a plus to any customers not just us simmers.

I don't disagree, it's definitely possible to hit the limit and performance improvements are always good, but it's not nearly as big an issue as it is for us.

And just take a look at the release notes for versions all the way through from 1 till 3, most of the fixes and changes are more beneficial to the average simmer than a commercial or military client.

If anyone thinks that the folks at LM don't know that people are using the sim for Entertainment, they are sadly mistaken. The point is that it doesn't really matter unless something untoward were to happen.

My opinion is that the whole licencing policy is a safety net for LM. In the event that some door knob decides to use the sim for something they shouldn't, then got caught, LM will be free of any backlash because of the disclaimer.

Just now, RancidViper said:

And just take a look at the release notes for versions all the way through from 1 till 3, most of the fixes and changes are more beneficial to the average simmer than a commercial or military client.

I disagree.  Evidence: Simdirector - huge development effort, zero interest from simmers

1 minute ago, kevinfirth said:

I disagree.  Evidence: Simdirector - huge development effort, zero interest from simmers

Maybe not from simmers, but certainly from addon developers who are developing addons for entertainment purposes for simmers. Po tay toe, po tah toe?

Just now, RancidViper said:

certainly from addon developers who are developing addons for entertainment purposes for simmers

Im genuinely interested, can you point me to even one simdirector produced entertainment addon?