Update From the Dovetail Games Flight Team

[Holdit 551]

:smile:  :smile:  I sure hope non native English speakers don't misinterpret that phrase

 

Even native English speakers would do a double-take, I think...

[Chock 17,769]

Sorry, I have to disagree with that. I use 124th  ATC (a nice beta)  for ATC and World Traffic 2 for AI Traffic and neither is anywhere close to the host of available products for FSX and P3d. Without both of those items, one is really not "flying IFR". I like XP but it has some key weaknesses which is nothing new.

 

Agreed, some sims have a bit more suitable stuff for them, but for an extreme example.. Dovetail's sim might not be as fancy as some others, but having said that, so long as you've got ATC of some description (even the basic tarted up FSX one which Flight School has) and you've got the requisite instruments, you can fly IFR in it.

 

I know some people will regard an aeroplane as only suitable for simulating IFR if it has a panel which looks like it belongs in the Space Shuttle and an FMC, but from a legal standpoint in real world flying, or in a flight sim, if you've got a working radio, an accurate altimeter, an ASI, a clock with a second hand, a rate of turn indicator and an artificial horizon, then you have everything necessary to fly in IMC and also everything necessary to gain an IMC rating too in the real world (well, apart from those damn foggles or a hood lol).

 

Flight School might not be intended to teach simming newbies how to fly IFR from one point to another, but it can; you certainly can do so in Dovetail's Flight School, even in the humble Piper Cub, in fact I just tried it, to see if it was possible, which it is, and jolly good fun it was too. I went from Liverpool (EGGP) airport to Manchester (EGCC) airport, at night. All I had to do was tune my Nav radio to MCT, with the ILS for 23R on the standby frequency and I was all set, ATC set me up for a right hand circuit to intercept 23R, and from there I panned the view down in the VC so I had no forward view and just flew the needles on the GS indicator, didn't even use DME, the needles were enough. To do that for real in the UK I'd need an EASA PPL with an IFR rating and a Night rating, so if it can simulate something for which you'd need all those licence endorsements, then it absolutely can simulate all that IMC malarkey. I'm sure you could do the same in X-Plane too, which I do have, just not loaded on my PC at the moment.

 

Screenies of IFR in Flight School. Note that the pilot is so confident of his abilities in IMC, he's even wearing sunglasses, at night...

 

 

 

 

 

Like FS and P3D, all Flight School would need is a decent add on airliner and some third party ATC and it'd be every bit as capable as P3D at simulating a completely realistic airliner flight to anywhere in the world, but as noted, even without those, you can still make such a flight, you'd just have to do it in a GA single or twin, whereas in X-Plane there are some nice airliners available. So I'm looking forward to seeing what Dovetail can come up with as a base sim, because I think they did alright with FSX-SE and for ten quid, I think Flight School was a good stab at getting more casual simmers into giving virtual aeroplanes a try.

[Guest]

 

 

Ha ha, I cant let you get away with that one.   In real life, no matter whether the conditions are IFR or VFR, it makes sense to fly with an IFR flight plan, unless one is just doodling around and sightseeing, which at those high prices, I doubt that many people do that anymore.

 

Think you perhaps took me a little too literally Jay, I honestly don't care what type of flying people do with their simulator of choice ... you can put wings on a pig for all I care and go hunting for virtual goats in the virtual scenery ... if that's what people like, that's their business.  

 

Agree IFR doesn't mean tubeliners ... in fact, you can get a CPL with just VFR and/or night VFR in the US.  I think only ATP requires instrument rating (need to check that).

 

IFR is a certificate to be used in combination with a license:

 

flight instructor

ground instructor

instrument 

instrument instructor

multi-engine

multi-engine instructor

 

More ratings, less restrictions and more options in flight planning.

 

Pilots licenses:

 

Student

Sport

Recreational

Private 

Commercial

Airline Transport

 

Then there is the medical aspect, first class, second class, third class and at my old age, yearly medicals but I think first class is every 6 months?

 

But however one likes to fly, just try and make the best of it in a simulated world ... www.liveatc.net is a great source to listen to pilots that are on the ball in a GA aircraft vs. pilots in a 777 that are clearly not on the ball (and visa-versa) ... pilot skills vary greatly in the real world ... just as do driver skills on ground.  Airline Pilot guy is another great source for real world information and insight into commercial and GA pilots.

[Chock 17,769]

I dunno about you guys, but I know that my trust in the piloting abilities of at least some airline pilots (who of course fly IFR all the time in their big jetliners, often on autopilot), was severely dented when I learned that the moment the AP disengaged and he had to do some proper flying, the PF in AF447 had the stick all the way back whilst in a stall as that Airbus dropped from cruise altitude all the way down to the ocean.

Throughout that plunge, the audio was blaring: 'bleep, bleep, bleep, Stall, Stall'. The CVR reveals that all the while the PF was saying that he 'didn't understand what the f*** was happening' whilst his hand kept that sidestick back on the rear stop; at one point the Airbus went into a 7,000 fpm climb rate while at nearly 38,000 feet because of his control inputs; you don't need to be Chuck Yeager to know how that's gonna turn out. And that guy had an IFR rating, which is scary to say the least. There are probably kids who bought Dovetail's Flight School on Steam who, having done some of the lessons, could have done a better job of flying that particular Airbus, because at least they'd know to shove the power on and stick the nose down when you get a stall warning. That's one of the problems with IFR it seems; you are taught to trust your instruments, but that should never be to the point where you do so when it's obvious that they are givving you false readings.

I said it years ago, and in fact wrote letters to many aviation sources too, complaining about it being an ill advised choice when they took stall and spin training off the JAR PPL syllabus and replaced it with 'stall avoidance'. I knew it was a big mistake. IFR ratings are one thing, but they should shove a copy of Wolfgang Langewiesche's Stick and Rudder in your hand when you get a job at an airline and tell you there'll be a test on Monday lol. I'm sure many real-world Airbus pilots will be using FSL's A320 to brush up on things, but it's worrying to think one or two of them might better spend that time on Dovetail's Flight School.

 

I know it's easy to be a 'Monday morning quarterback' when you read NTSB, BEA, and AAIB etc reports in the comfort of an armchair, but sometimes it is staggering how bad some decisions are from highly rated, high hours pilots who you'd like to think would have done a bit better under the circumstances.

[SamYeager 244]

There's an interesting position open for the DT Flight Sim team as new Community Manager

Looking at the job spec on DTG's site this definitely looks like the role that DTG Martin was fulfilling. I suppose it's possible that he's moving to another job within DTG but I rather suspect he's either due to leave DTG in the not too distant future or has already left to take up another post. Perhaps he got bored being unable to say anything to us?

[jalbino59 114]

Forum Topic = "Update From the Dovetail Games Flight Team"

 

Forum Content = "Everything except an Update From the Dovetail Games Flight Team" 

[Paraffin 2,197]

Forum Topic = "Update From the Dovetail Games Flight Team"

 

Forum Content = "Everything except an Update From the Dovetail Games Flight Team" 

 

Nature abhors a vacuum.  :smile:

 

Forums do too, when a vacuum of information follows product hype. Anyway, all this speculation and viewpoint argument is good for DTG in the long run. Better we talk about something here, than forget this project is out there on the horizon somewhere. 

[pmb 5,137]

Looking at the job spec on DTG's site this definitely looks like the role that DTG Martin was fulfilling. I suppose it's possible that he's moving to another job within DTG but I rather suspect he's either due to leave DTG in the not too distant future or has already left to take up another post. Perhaps he got bored being unable to say anything to us?

That's exactly what I was about to write but didn't dare to. 

 

I was following this project from its very beginning when Martin asked simmers for input on key aspects (and gave it at that time - that must have been years ago). Its trace since, including that pointless FlightSchool, looks like a meander to dead end - even more in view of recent developments in XP and Aerofly, not to speak of the expected 64 bit Prepar3d.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[DTG Martin 213]

Looking at the job spec on DTG's site this definitely looks like the role that DTG Martin was fulfilling. I suppose it's possible that he's moving to another job within DTG but I rather suspect he's either due to leave DTG in the not too distant future or has already left to take up another post. Perhaps he got bored being unable to say anything to us?

 

I'm still here! 

 

However, I am sadly leaving the Dovetail Games flight team to go work on our new project Dovetail Live. I will be about for a while until we find someone new to replace me.. 

 

That leaves an opening for a new community manager though. So we figured where better to look for a new flight sim community manager than the flight community? If you live in the UK, you are a keen flight simmer, and want to be part of the Dovetail Games flight team please get in touch. 

 

- Martin 

[SamYeager 244]

I'm still here!

Hi Martin -long time no hear. Any timescale, other than 'soon', on when the "detailed development update in the new year" is likely to happen? Given we're now at the start of February that seems to me to be well into the new year.

[DTG Martin 213]

Hi Martin -long time no hear. Any timescale, other than 'soon', on when the "detailed development update in the new year" is likely to happen? Given we're now at the start of February that seems to me to be well into the new year.

 

There is not much I can say at this point Sam. Our heads our down and we are working hard on the new sim. I can confirm that we have started to roll out early preview builds of the sim to a few selective partners and members of the flight sim community in order to collect initial feedback. We are currently exploring methods for possibly expanding this practice to a wider group over the coming months. 

 

- Martin 

[Wobbie 938]

 

 

We are currently exploring methods for possibly expanding this practice to a wider group over the coming months.

 

 

Thanks, Martin for the update, & all the best in your next venture.

 

So, reading this, DTG is obviously just pre-alpha testing, with further testing over the coming months.

 

​Guys, we have a looong way to go before we see anything!  

[Lbt564 60]

Thanks, Martin for the update, & all the best in your next venture.

 

So, reading this, DTG is obviously just pre-alpha testing, with further testing over the coming months.

 

​Guys, we have a looong way to go before we see anything!

December 2017 maybe 

[SamYeager 244]

Martin, I won't pretend to be happy about the reference to "months" but I realise there's no point in shooting the messenger. After the blackout in terms of any communications from DTG of the last few months I hope you and your successor will move to more regular updates even if it's just to tell us the status is still alpha or beta.

Edited February 1, 2017 by SamYeager

[fs4fun 366]

 

 

However, I am sadly leaving the Dovetail Games flight team to go work on our new project Dovetail Live. I will be about for a while until we find someone new to replace me

 

Hi Martin, just wanted to say thanks for the community outreach. This can be a tough audience but many of us appreciate your (and DTG's) efforts in picking up the MSFS technology and continuing its evolution.

 

Good luck with the new project.