Sign in to follow this  
skwaL

747-400F range spec option?

Recommended Posts

Hey everyone,

 

I do get a lot of my information from wikipedia in regards to many things but, this got me puzzed. The maximum range for 400F according to Boeing has various options ranging anywhere from 2825nm @ Max gross takeoff weight all the way up to 4400nm. The numbers stated on wiki are 2825nm. Any ideas what the PMDG 747-400F is going to have?

 

I guess this question is more of a question for beta testers and developers.

 

Thanks for all the help and info ahead of time

 

 

- Konstantin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Depends on how heavy the aircraft has been loaded but I wouldn't trust Wikipedia on your gut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey everyone,

 

I do get a lot of my information from wikipedia in regards to many things but, this got me puzzed. The maximum range for 400F according to Boeing has various options ranging anywhere from 2825nm @ Max gross takeoff weight all the way up to 4400nm. The numbers stated on wiki are 2825nm. Any ideas what the PMDG 747-400F is going to have?

 

I guess this question is more of a question for beta testers and developers.

 

Thanks for all the help and info ahead of time

 

 

- Konstantin

 

Have a look here: http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/747_4.pdf

 

I bet the PMDG 747F will be right on Boeings numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a look here: http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/747_4.pdf

 

I bet the PMDG 747F will be right on Boeings numbers.

 

Hey Wes,

 

Got my numbers off Boeing website. You can find them HERE

 

Once you get to the specification page closer to the bottom you will see that the 400F has several range options.

 

 

Depends on how heavy the aircraft has been loaded but I wouldn't trust Wikipedia on your gut.

 

I did state Max gross takeoff weight. There is no way to get more  :Tounge:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


Got my numbers off Boeing website. You can find them HERE
Thats more of a marketing type brochure. The link I sent you is a more technically specific document. Go to page 64 for a proper graph etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats more of a marketing type brochure. The link I sent you is a more technically specific document. Go to page 64 for a proper graph etc.

 

Ah alright. Thanks.

 

Seem like I would not have to worry about stopping in Keflavik on flight from CVG - LGG  :Tounge:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did state Max gross takeoff weight. There is no way to get more

 

Konstantin​,

 

Freighters are almost always limited by ZFW and/or MGLW as opposed to MGTOW.  A freighter needs to be at or near capacity to be profitable.  This means freighters must trade pounds of fuel for pounds of cargo.  An example would be a heavily traveled route from FRA to NRT or HKG.   A freighter will need to stop in OVB enroute to NRT or ALA enroute HKG out of FRA because it has traded pounds of fuel for pounds of cargo.  Although a B744 can easily go directly from FRA to NRT or HKG, a fully loaded freighter can't and still make a profit.  A lot of times freighters will have more pounds of cargo than pounds of fuel.  As they say in the cinema "It's all about the money." :smile:

 

blaustern

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If range had been a big deal more freight companies would be flying the -400ERF

 

The different ranges in my opinion are related to the engine option selected and possibly more upper deck seats, another bathroom, big kitchen, etc. adding weight.  - David Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

more upper deck seats, another bathroom, big kitchen, etc. adding weight

Have you ever seen this on a freighter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you ever seen this on a freighter?

There are usually several rows of business class seats, a galley, a toilet or two and crew rest bunks on the upper deck of a 747F. Remember, its not just the pilots, there is usually a loadmaster and often couriers, horse handlers etc that travel on F flights.

 

That said, I doubt this would add that much weight, probably only a few tons which are anticipated in the design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are no such options.

 

I'll use an analogy here:

On a normal day, I can walk pretty far. I think I usually - if I did no more walking than necessary during the week - walk about 4 miles. Even then, I could still walk more.

Now, we arrive at a weekend and I have to help a friend move to a new house. Weighed down with boxes, I'm definitely not going to be able to walk 4 miles.

 

Same for the plane:

Little weight - lots of range.

Lots of weight - little range.

 

Never go off of basic numbers like that. They're there for marketing and for casual passengers to muse about. The actual numbers depend on weight, FL flown, speed flown, temp, head/tailwind component, and so on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gents,

 

A couple rules about airplane performance numbers:

 

1) Marketers lie.

2) Liars market.

3) Never believe anything you hear a broker say.

4) Discount anything the sales guy says while he is communicating in any manner.

 

Go by the engineering data, if you can get your hands on it. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Konstantin​,

 

Freighters are almost always limited by ZFW and/or MGLW as opposed to MGTOW.  A freighter needs to be at or near capacity to be profitable.  This means freighters must trade pounds of fuel for pounds of cargo.  An example would be a heavily traveled route from FRA to NRT or HKG.   A freighter will need to stop in OVB enroute to NRT or ALA enroute HKG out of FRA because it has traded pounds of fuel for pounds of cargo.  Although a B744 can easily go directly from FRA to NRT or HKG, a fully loaded freighter can't and still make a profit.  A lot of times freighters will have more pounds of cargo than pounds of fuel.  As they say in the cinema "It's all about the money." :smile:

 

Air freight needs to get to their destination quickly, but not THAT quick compared to passengers, whose comfort will really start to deteriorate beyond 12 hours. Therefore freighters make frequent tech stops at max payload.

 

If you need really urgent air freight (e.g. You're in just-in-time manufacturing and you suffered a major breakdown) you charter a jet and fly it to your requirements. Cost index 999? Check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you ever seen this on a freighter?

Absolutely, at minimum you must have seats for the pilots to rest in. some have more if they carry animals and support staff need to sit in seats. - David Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are usually several rows of business class seats, a galley, a toilet or two and crew rest bunks on the upper deck of a 747F. Remember, its not just the pilots, there is usually a loadmaster and often couriers, horse handlers etc that travel on F flights.

 

That said, I doubt this would add that much weight, probably only a few tons which are anticipated in the design.

 

 

Absolutely, at minimum you must have seats for the pilots to rest in. some have more if they carry animals and support staff need to sit in seats. - David Lee

You guys are right. I had forgotten about the 775 pigs in post #39 - http://www.avsim.com/topic/501320-b744f-polar-kdfw-panc/page-3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gents,

 

A couple rules about airplane performance numbers:

 

1) Marketers lie.

2) Liars market.

3) Never believe anything you hear a broker say.

4) Discount anything the sales guy says while he is communicating in any manner.

 

Go by the engineering data, if you can get your hands on it.

sounds like on an egyptian bazar ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess this post has cleared up a lot of information for me :)

Thanks lots everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely, at minimum you must have seats for the pilots to rest in. some have more if they carry animals and support staff need to sit in seats. - David Lee

 

Not in my world. :smile: 

 

blaustern

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even the USAF/Lockheed C-5A has a passenger compartment above the cargo deck. It is located aft of the wing main spar carry through box.  Access via a ladder.  No windows but the ride is very nice, much better than the web seating in a C-130.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of this weight stuff, I'll be eager to get my hands on an accurate PFPX profile for the different types of of 744 and the 748 based on what pmdg has for pax, weight, etc... Must have IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of this weight stuff, I'll be eager to get my hands on an accurate PFPX profile for the different types of of 744 and the 748 based on what pmdg has for pax, weight, etc... Must have IMO.

I am using these files by FlyPrecisely - http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/files/file/3514-pfpx-boeing-747-400-performance-profiles-pack/. They maybe right or wrong but they get me to where I am going. Any oddities in fuel burn, cruise altitudes, or step climbs I just blame it on PFPX.
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


I am using these files by FlyPrecisely - http://forum.aerosof...-profiles-pack/. They maybe right or wrong but they get me to where I am going. Any oddities in fuel burn, cruise altitudes, or step climbs I just blame it on PFPX.

 

I suppose we will have to wait until we get the final product released though to see if they are accurate or how accurate they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

guys,

 

the profile if fed properly is not the one to blame ....

 

Phil

 

ps i have a wonderful 748f profile that i cant wait to test ....

Speaking of this weight stuff, I'll be eager to get my hands on an accurate PFPX profile for the different types of of 744 and the 748 based on what pmdg has for pax, weight, etc... Must have IMO.

 

I am using these files by FlyPrecisely - http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/files/file/3514-pfpx-boeing-747-400-performance-profiles-pack/. They maybe right or wrong but they get me to where I am going. Any oddities in fuel burn, cruise altitudes, or step climbs I just blame it on PFPX.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the profile if fed properly is not the one to blame ....

So who or what is to blame for the incorrect initial cruse altitudes and step climbs that are way to soon? I just go with what the FMC indicates in terms of initial cruise altitude and when to do a step climb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So who or what is to blame for the incorrect initial cruse altitudes and step climbs that are way to soon? I just go with what the FMC indicates in terms of initial cruise altitude and when to do a step climb

Min/max altitudes on the airways probably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this