turner112

Airports out of date

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Long story short:

Loaded up SNA to try out new PilotEdge plugin.

Taxied to... 19R. 

It was changed to 20R in September of 2014. Taxiways seem ok.

Anyone else finding discrepancies?
 

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It's the same default 2006 airport and navdata from FSX.

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This is a bit disappointing that in version 4, this still hasn't been addressed.  I wonder if it's on the "to do" list?

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2 minutes ago, ricka47 said:

This is a bit disappointing that in version 4, this still hasn't been addressed.  I wonder if it's on the "to do" list?

To redo all the 26,000 airports in the database would take years and years. Don't think you will ever see that happen, 

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Just now, Bobsk8 said:

To redo all the 26,000 airports in the database would take years and years. Don't think you will ever see that happen, 

It happened in X-Plane.

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3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

To redo all the 26,000 airports in the database would take years and years. Don't think you will ever see that happen, 

Did it take years and years to build it in the first place?

Accurate and up-to date Airport representations are the most important features of a flight sim. How Lockheed managed to not finally tackle a complete overhaul is beyond me.

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in the meantime there is a freeware site that provides updates for all that stuff, looks updated for v4 already too.

http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html 

also a company http://www.fsaerodata.com has one that is based from the navigraph data with monthly updates.

i'm guessing that LM is just going with the easy/cheap solution that there are already ways to solve it out there. as bob said, it's a project just by itself.. and insanely huge project if you talk about updating afcads too. 

i do agree it would be nice to have a refresh of everything though. :)

cheers,-andy crosby

 

 

 

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Just now, spesimen said:

in the meantime there is a freeware site that provides updates for all that stuff, looks updated for v4 already too.

http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html 

also a company http://www.fsaerodata.com has one that is based from the navigraph data with monthly updates.

i'm guessing that LM is just going with the easy/cheap solution that there are already ways to solve it out there. as bob said, it's a project just by iteself.. and insanely huge project if you talk about updating afcads too. 

i do agree it would be nice to have a refresh of everything though. :)

cheers,-andy crosby

 

 

 

They are constantly opening and closing airports, runways, changing runway heading, etc. it is quite a job. http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html   I  used this when I flew for VA's and it works well, but the signs on the runways will not agree with the runway heading, for instance, 10L and 10 R in KFLL , the signage at the airport will still show 9L and 9R. 

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The nav data may be updated but not the runway headings etc. Also it wont change ATC (not that I use that) and from memory there is an issue if you use the flight planner....cant recall if it results in a CTD or something else. Still if you can live with that it is much better than default.

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the runway headings do get updated... at least for standard AFCADs like default airports. if it's custom painted texture, not so much.

"LS/Rwy regional updates will correct ILSs, runway identifiers, markers and all embedded NDBs in other regions than Europe. In the US, lightings and PAPIs are also corrected. An automatic installer is provided. Note that each region can be installed separately"

 

that's the advantage to a data-driven source model even if it's not perfect. if you update a generic AFCAD to a new rwy number it should display correctly at the sim, if i'm not mistaken..

cheers,-andy crosby

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I would have to agree that it's not asking too much to at least update major airports i.e. KSEA SEQM FAOR.

All 26,000 are not as critical, but should eventually be tended to. 

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33 minutes ago, spesimen said:

in the meantime there is a freeware site that provides updates for all that stuff, looks updated for v4 already too.

http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html 

also a company http://www.fsaerodata.com has one that is based from the navigraph data with monthly updates.

i'm guessing that LM is just going with the easy/cheap solution that there are already ways to solve it out there. as bob said, it's a project just by itself.. and insanely huge project if you talk about updating afcads too. 

i do agree it would be nice to have a refresh of everything though. :)

cheers,-andy crosby

 

 

 

Those two products are not equivalent. Both have updated navaids, but fsaerodata updates all procedures for every default airport. LM has showcased fsaerodata on its website and this is consistent with the LM philosophy. They support the 3rd party developer community rather than adding all these features to the base sim. One can argue with that approach, but LM isn't going to change how it maintains and advances the technology in P3d.

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1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

To redo all the 26,000 airports in the database would take years and years. Don't think you will ever see that happen, 

A one time update of the information from public data would not take years and years. It's not like Microsoft hand made every airport's runway data originally.

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Well...at the risk of being "that guy" I do have state that Flight Sim World features updated airports. P3D is still superior by miles at this point, but I agree that still being stuck with the 2006 FSX airport database is disappointing.

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8 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

To redo all the 26,000 airports in the database would take years and years. Don't think you will ever see that happen, 

Do you really think they manually created 26,000 airports?
They have developed an automated tool that interpreters the Jeppesen data and creates default airports on the fly. 

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11 hours ago, RoboRay said:

It's the same default 2006 airport and navdata from FSX.

Indeed. The two nearest to me in the real world are Manchester (EGCC) and Woodford (EGCD). EGCC still shows runways 24L/R and 6L/R but those were changed a few years back to 25 & 5. EGCD doesn't even exist anymore as the site closed in 2011, the runway was dug up and it is now a housing estate.

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3 hours ago, Egbert Drenth said:

Do you really think they manually created 26,000 airports?
They have developed an automated tool that interpreters the Jeppesen data and creates default airports on the fly. 

I think you should contact them then and tell them how easy it is to do. 

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3 hours ago, glenecho3 said:

Well...at the risk of being "that guy" I do have state that Flight Sim World features updated airports. P3D is still superior by miles at this point, but I agree that still being stuck with the 2006 FSX airport database is disappointing.

Not entirely true of FSW. There are some updated navaids and airports in FSW, but is does nevertheless still have some of the old stuff in there, for example, you can still cheerfully take off and land at an airport which used to be about two or three miles from my home - EGCD Woodford Aerodrome. If you've ever watched the movie 633 Squadron and winced at the bits where they taxied perfectly airworthy deHavilland Mosquitos at high speed across the grass at high speeds and then deliberately retracted the landing gear to simulate belly landings for the benefit of that movie, that was the airfield where they did that and it was also where the Nimrod was built and tested, so it was a fairly major military airfield. But it is not an airfield any longer; it closed down in 2011 when BAe sold it off (for the bargain price of 100 Million Quid lol) and it is now a housing estate called Woodford Garden Village, so you've not been able to land or take off from there for around seven years in real life.

Fortunately, this is where payware and freeware add-on airports and scenery come to the rescue of course, since updating and tweaking thousands of airports would be quite a task for either LM or DTG, although with P3D being a 'pro' product intended to simulate tactical planning, they perhaps out to be a little more concerned with real-world fidelity than DTG need to be, so I wouldn't mind betting it is on their 'to do' list.

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1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

I think you should contact them then and tell them how easy it is to do. 

No need. As I said they already know.

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I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that the default airports have not been updated. Since P3D is not marketed or sold as an "entertainment" sim platform, perhaps LM cannot justify the cost of updating worldwide airport scenery to 2017 data. Those using P3D for r/w tactical or procedural training probably install custom scenery to fit their own unique training scenarios.

Even the full sized Level D sims used by airlines to train flight crews often have only one or two airports simulated in high detail - not every airport in the airlines' route structure.

I believe that the airport scenery data inherited from the Microsoft ESP code base was originally created in partnership with Jeppesen - LM may not have a current business relationship with  Jeppesen that would easily allow something similar to be done for P3D.

Since there is already a huge market of third party developers offering detailed and accurate scenery updates for r/w airports, LM would probably prefer to let those developers continue to serve those P3D users who need and want accurate airport scenery. 

Now FSW, which IS marketed for "entertainment", has updated many (but not all) airports to conform to their present-day configuration. As I mentioned in a different thread, I found that my home airport KELM has been updated in FSW to include several new hangars and a runway extension, all of which have been built in the past 6 years. Apparently DTG outsourced the airport data upgrades to an outside company. The name escapes me, but if you own FSW, and go to the "credits" page in the setup menu, you will see that company mentioned.

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17 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

As I mentioned in a different thread, I found that my home airport KELM has been updated in FSW to include several new hangars and a runway extension, all of which have been built in the past 6 years. 

Interesting you mention Elmira, that's a spot we fly to from my home base in New Jersey (when the weather is good) as we come up to Finger Lakes each year to stay in Watkins Glen. First year we flew was the day after Elmira had a tornado!

Beautiful area.

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There is talk on the LM P3D forum that they are working on this.  But, after all these years, we could have expected a few of the more obvious fixes.

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As a training tool (which is what Prepar3D actually is, remember), having every airport in the world current and up-to-date is unnecessary (though it would certainly be nice).  The developers of the training curriculum will update the relative handful of specific airports that are relevant to the needs of their students (or of themselves, in many cases), by purchasing, commissioning, or creating for themselves detailed and accurate locations as required.

LM will probably devote a lot of resources to the task of updating the entire world when one of their major customers contracts them to do so.

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