2 minutes ago, Holdit said:

Nor have I. I haven't heard anyone claim that P3DvX isn't as good as FSX, just that for some people there is no compelling reason to make the move yet. This has nothing to do with blindness regarding P3Dv4's features, but rather represents a cost-benefit analysis that results in a "no need to rush into it yet" verdict.

I get the impression that there's a quasi-religious fervour regarding P3Dv4 at the moment (not the first time I've noticed such a phenomenon on AVSIM), with some of the faithful wishing "punishment" (in the form of no more more add-ons) on the heretics... 

But it's not the community at large or avsim that started this discussion. It was a post by both flytampa and turbulent designs who are moving in this direction. Apparently there has been discussions with other addon vendors as well about this very situation with the consensus that v4 is a far more attractive development platform. (Along with xp 11)

of course, this may or may not be viable depending on customers but this is a big deal and not speculation by the end users (us)

1 hour ago, WotanUK said:

I have read numerous times saying that you have never suffered OOMs, well i have, so have numerous others.  I know, you are going to tell me that it's my fault, if i used the default sim and only one add on aircraft with a LOD of 3 i could avoid them too.  But here is the thing; i don't want to do that.  I want to run ORBX FTX, OpenLU Europe, EGLL v3 and the PMDG 747 and now, thanks to v4 i can.  

As for installing stuff, i simply don't install until they have been released for v4.

If you are still OK with v3, power to you, people out there are OK with FS9, why are you not using FS9? 

The Last sentence in your post is a ridiculous question so I thought I would make that comment first. 

If I had OOMs, I would download and install V4 ASAP, but I don't. So what is your point?

 

2 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

The Last sentence in your post is a ridiculous question so I thought I would make that comment first. 

If I had OOMs, I would download and install V4 ASAP, but I don't. So what is your point?

 

I am not sure that i like your tone.

You were asking why people would upgrade from v3, to directly quote you "Sorry, but I see no compelling reason to upgrade at this time", i was asking why you moved from FS9...i already know the answer, FSX and later P3D offered something that you wanted, your second answer surprisingly answered your own question?  V4 offers people who experience them a way out of OOMs.  

It also offers something to developers in that they are no longer constrained by the 4Gb VAS limit, so, again, i believe that they will drop support for the 32-bit sims as soon as economically viable, furthermore, i believe that the first on the chopping block will be P3Dv3, i imagine that by the end of this year the flood of P3Dv3 releases will be little more than a trickle.  

This time it will move much quicker than FS9 - FSX, FSX - P3Dv1,2,3.  

4 minutes ago, WotanUK said:

I am not sure that i like your tone.

You were asking why people would upgrade from v3, to directly quote you "Sorry, but I see no compelling reason to upgrade at this time", i was asking why you moved from FS9...i already know the answer, FSX and later P3D offered something that you wanted, your second answer surprisingly answered your own question?  V4 offers people who experience them a way out of OOMs.  

It also offers something to developers in that they are no longer constrained by the 4Gb VAS limit, so, again, i believe that they will drop support for the 32-bit sims as soon as economically viable, furthermore, i believe that the first on the chopping block will be P3Dv3, i imagine that by the end of this year the flood of P3Dv3 releases will be little more than a trickle.  

This time it will move much quicker than FS9 - FSX, FSX - P3Dv1,2,3.  

Well I didn't like the tone of your question that I commented on either so we are even, I suppose. In my original comment, which you chose to disagree with, I posted why there is no reason for me to move to V4 at this time, because I see no real advantage for me to spend the time and money to do so. I am really sorry that you feel that  my reasoning is incorrect. The add ons I have presently will most likely last me for a couple of years, and who knows what simming will be like by then, so what developers do in the next year or two , doesn't really concern me. I'm still learning to fly what I already own, but I am not surprised by that, since I have been flying SEL in real life for almost 40 years and still am learning every time  I fly. 

34 minutes ago, Rafal said:

Obviously each simulator's environment looks more or less different. But, honestly I haven't read anyone claiming FSX looks the same as P3D, have you? Of course I may have just missed it in the ocean of threads and posts.
As for OOMs, it is possible to tweak FSX to a state of no OOMs. Not because you suddenly get it working like 64-bit, but by learning how to utilize what you have. My FSX is currently in such a state.

If there is someone who claims that FSX looks exactly like P3D or that no OOMs are possible in FSX, I strongly disagree.

Rafa, with reference to your previous post, I already made the point - earlier in my post that you were quoting(!) - that money was a logical argument for NOT switching. If you're a pensioner, $200 for the core program update may not be financially viable.

As has been pointed out above, this isn't the reason for our comments. It's a response to the same arguments that come up in every thread like this that:

1. FSX/Earlier versions of P3D didn't have OOM problems even WITH lots of addons/sliders to the right.

2. There's no/minimal significant visual or performance changes, basically FSX is just as good.

I don't mind at all if someone doesn't switch, but claiming that OOMs weren't a concern with heavy addon use with previous versions of these sims doesn't gel with the experience of the vast majority of users. And the progress that LM has made over the last 7 years with the engine may not have been rapid, but the cumulative changes have left us with a very different and much improved sim compared to what we began with.

18 hours ago, markdf said:

Where do you get this impression?

You can still purchase licenses for all versions of P3D, including v1 directly from LM - I don't see them removing v3 any time soon

I stand corrected.  But if you are a new P3D user, why would you get older version?  P3Dv4 is at a cross road for many.  Due to the extra cost to upgrade add-ons some simply will decide to look at other alternatives, or simply stay on if the Sim does not offer anything other than removing the OOM.  My only criterion is smooth sim without stutters.  I have seen micro stutters with v3 even with people with very high HW spec.  The jury is still out with v4, so far in my experience, with everything equal, the FPS counter is the same for me with V3 and V4, so if I never have OOM issues, what do I stand to gain, which requires me to give up on many add-ons that work fine with V3?

I don't think that anyone who has decided to stick with FSX is arguing that everyone aught to. The general theme of this thread seems to be that we should all be changing to P3D v4 now and those still happy with FSX, in particular, have been trying to explain why they see no reason to do so. I'm certainly not resistant to change, just to change for changes sake.

The claim that anyone who doesn't get OOMs must be running default FSX is far from true. Some add-ons are clearly worse than others in this respect. I don't have any PMDG aircraft but i do, exclusively, use payware aircraft and Orbx scenery without any issues. Outside of FSX, there are a number of reasons why some people might get OOMs and others don't. If I was new to flight simming, I'd probably go for P3D. However, I'm not and there's nothing that I particularly want or need that only P3D v4 offers.

Other than just pure speculation, I think the only sure way to see whether the P3D v4 evangelists are correct will be to revisit this thread in at least 6 months (maybe even a year) and look at what has actually happened. I suspect that we'll find, to paraphrase Mark Twain, that rumours of the death of FSX will have been greatly exaggerated.

30 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Well I didn't like the tone of your question that I commented on either so we are even, I suppose. In my original comment, which you chose to disagree with, I posted why there is no reason for me to move to V4 at this time, because I see no real advantage for me to spend the time and money to do so. I am really sorry that you feel that  my reasoning is incorrect. The add ons I have presently will most likely last me for a couple of years, and who knows what simming will be like by then, so what developers do in the next year or two , doesn't really concern me. I'm still learning to fly what I already own, but I am not surprised by that, since I have been flying SEL in real life for almost 40 years and still am learning every time  I fly. 

 

Fair enough; if you are limiting that statement to yourself i have no reason to question you.  

I chose to disagree with the blanket statement that there is no good reason to upgrade.  For me, there absolutely is, largely i was tired after flying 3-4 hours in the NGX i'd get to somewhere like Palma, only for the sim to crash with the ever famous OOM message, like i had wasted 4 hours! 

Next time however, i think that like yourself, it will have to offer something special for me to update.

7 hours ago, ukplane1 said:

P3D V4 = fs2002 flight dynamics 

No...  P3Dv4 = whatever flight dynamics model an aircraft-maker wants to build or use.  You can use the default scenery, or not.  You can use the default weather engine, or not.  With aircraft, you can use the default flight dynamics model or not.

1 minute ago, RoboRay said:

No...  P3Dv4 = whatever flight dynamics model an aircraft-maker wants to build or use.  You can use the default scenery, or not.  You can use the default weather engine, or not.  With aircraft, you can use an external flight dynamics model or not.

Yeah, I don't get this argument at all. An addon is a good as the programmer of the FDE can or wants to make it.

The XP fans must be bonkers if they are really trying to suggest that the flight model is great 'out of the box' in XP. I can tell you it isn't......many of the default XP birds fly like crap as far as the FDE goes. Again, its down to how much work, care and attention has gone into it no matter which platform.

45 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

It's a response to the same arguments that come up in every thread like this that:
1. FSX/Earlier versions of P3D didn't have OOM problems even WITH lots of addons/sliders to the right.
2. There's no/minimal significant visual or performance changes, basically FSX is just as good.

Well, I wouldn't like to repeat myself but I must have missed a lot of threads then (no irony mode).
Once again, I officially disagree with everyone claiming FSX doesn't have OOM problems with lots of addons/sliders to the right and there's no visual or performance changes.

I feel a bit stupid now since I read AVSIM on a daily basis and seriously do not remember people writing so, especially in EVERY THREAD LIKE THIS as you mention.
I promise to read more and will stand corrected without any problems.

Since I said what I wanted to say, I will stop writing here and will read what others have to say.
As Dalai Lama said: 'When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new.'

34 minutes ago, Anxu00 said:

if you are a new P3D user, why would you get older version? 

You wouldn't.  That option is for an existing customer who still uses the legacy versions and wants to expand their footprint across more machines without needing to upgrade all of them to the newest version available or replacing their old hardware with more capable systems.

Continued access to obsolescent software is rather important in industry.

Dear colleagues,

We have so far had exactly the constructive discussion that I had originally hoped. Please don't let our talk deteriorate into a slanging match. Each has his own valid arguments for his own expected future paths. We are mature enough to respect them.

Thanks!

35 minutes ago, Rafal said:

Once again, I officially disagree with everyone claiming FSX doesn't have OOM problems with lots of addons/sliders to the right and there's no visual or performance changes.

Nobody is saying that there are no problems with OOM errors in FSX, just that not everybody gets them. If you don't get them, then that removes the main reason to change to P3D v4.

P3D v4 may well have better performance but, as has been already stated, if your existing sim already performs well and runs smoothly, getting more FPS isn't going to make any difference, other than purely for bragging rights.

36 minutes ago, Rafal said:

Well, I wouldn't like to repeat myself but I must have missed a lot of threads then (no irony mode).
Once again, I officially disagree with everyone claiming FSX doesn't have OOM problems with lots of addons/sliders to the right and there's no visual or performance changes.

I feel a bit stupid now since I read AVSIM on a daily basis and seriously do not remember people writing so, especially in EVERY THREAD LIKE THIS as you mention.
I promise to read more and will stand corrected without any problems.

Since I said what I wanted to say, I will stop writing here and will read what others have to say.
As Dalai Lama said: 'When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new.'

Rafa, old chap, just so you understand we're only arguing the point (I think) because you quoted me and then told me (and another fellow) to "check our privilege", so to speak. You said:

"Getnlemen, you are missing one important reason many people have for not switching (especially from FSX to P3D), which lets me think you have the lucky privilege to be well off.
This is called MONEY. If you have to buy a new PC and pay again for many expensive addons collected for years it may look fine to you, but some people, living in different parts of the world, just cannot afford it."

But whilst accusing me of being unaware that money might be an issue for some, you were selectively quoting my post, which was certainly pro-v4 but also included the comment:

"you can make arguments to stay with fsx etc - cost, convenience and familiarity being the main ones."

In that light, I felt your original post was misguided.

To be honest, I don't think we need to apologise for be enthusiatic about Prepar3d v4 in the Prepar3d forum. 

Despite that, having read your posts I don't think we actually disagree on anything substantial here.I'm not upset by your post, we're just sitting here on a Sunday evening, shooting the breeze about things of little consequence. 

If you, I or anyone else feels the need to 'check their privilege', here's the link: http://www.checkmyprivilege.com/ 

I think high scores are good, but I may be wrong! 

Back to trying out the A2A birds in P3D v4 for me now.