regis9

How to Identify/Resolve Problematic AI Models

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Hello, I had a series of crashes at KMEM this morning, always while panning around the external view.  After this happened twice, i suspected an AI model was causing the issue so i turned off all AI and was able to takeoff without issue so that would seem to confirm a non-compatible AI model.  This is in p3dv4, i'm using a mishmash of free AI.

a few questions:

- are there any tools out there to help identify outdated models or otherwise what model is causing the crash?

- are there any commonly used models known to cause this issue?

- is v4 more sensitive to this than v3?  I never had this happen at kmem in v3, though it could just be the luck of what time I flew out of there, what AI was present etc.

any other advice/thoughts?

thanks

Dave

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AIFP should be able to help, but I am still trying to figure it out myself.  There was an image converter, but it didn't help me.  It seems that the way to go is some payware so as to stop wasting time and just fly.

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46 minutes ago, regis9 said:

Hello, I had a series of crashes at KMEM this morning, always while panning around the external view.  After this happened twice, i suspected an AI model was causing the issue so i turned off all AI and was able to takeoff without issue so that would seem to confirm a non-compatible AI model.  This is in p3dv4, i'm using a mishmash of free AI.

a few questions:

- are there any tools out there to help identify outdated models or otherwise what model is causing the crash?

- are there any commonly used models known to cause this issue?

- is v4 more sensitive to this than v3?  I never had this happen at kmem in v3, though it could just be the luck of what time I flew out of there, what AI was present etc.

any other advice/thoughts?

thanks

Dave

AIG has done it for you.  Go here:  http://www.alpha-india.net/forums/index.php?topic=25472.0

Shouldn't cause a crash though.  The FS9 models just don't show up or you'll see a tail but nothing else, or no landing gear.  

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I use this to look for older MDL files, DasModel.exe. Checking the dev's website (http://www.supercell.nl/disposition/) it says it is available here, so look for FSModelChecker on AVSIM. But looking at my zip file it shows flyawaysimulation's blurb, so who knows where I found it...LOL

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it's a lot of work(time consuming)to recompile complete ai package to p3d v4. You can convert MDL, but then you need to add missing animations, and sometimes textures. I'm going to wait for some good addon

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Traffic toolbox found in the sdk can be useful for finding ai aircraft that have black textures that show up in the sim

As some already said aig have a great page showing what works and currently does not in v4

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Thanks guys.  I'm less concerned about the ones that are missing gear/textures etc, i have some of those too but they don't seem to cause a crash and i know most are being worked on.

Is it the outdated model that causes the crashing?

i wish there were a payware package that met my needs but unfortunately none i've tried cut it for me.  MT6 had some pretty bad models and unrealistic schedules, UT2 had way too many out of date liveries or missing liveries...sounds like UT Live is the same.

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Have you considered creating your own? With aig plans 

Admittedly some models are not working in p3dv4 at the moment,but it is getting better as the older models get converted.

I'm back to having about 75% of what i have in p3dv3, and i have most schedules  are summer16 or newer

The way i have it set is all my models and plans are visible in p3dv4,p3dv3 and fsx all from one location

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That's basically what I have in place right now.  Most does in fact work well, it seems like I have a gremlin model in there somewhere though.

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Another way is to use Notepad + (freeware) right click on the *.MDL file and at the top you will see "MDLXMDLH " if it has an 8 and no X it is a fs9 model.

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If your convinced its a model,why not try removing each model type from your setup at a time running the sim and see if all works then try the next batch and whittle it down to the faulty model for example 

If you have 40 models disable the last 20 and run sim if all works ok then the problem is in the last 20 disabled models so this time disable the last 30 models and then run the sim if it works then you keep halving the untested ones until you get the fail 

If it fails on the first attempt then you can do the same whittling but from the other way

Should only take around 20 mins to figure it out with any luck

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Thanks, that's the kind of trial and error I was hoping to avoid but may have to resort to in this case.

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do you have the camsim 787 installed ??

 

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On ‎01‎.‎07‎.‎2017 at 4:50 PM, regis9 said:

so that would seem to confirm a non-compatible AI model.

...or an incompatible AI flightplan. IMHO that has a higher probability of actually crashing your sim.

An AI plane SimObject that can actually cause an exception would probably not have an issue in the 3D model (while that is possible). I would imagine that it might also have an incompatible "personality", as defined in the .air and aircraft.cfg file. Maybe P3D V4 is sensitive to certain kinds of wrong or incomplete definitions, for example for systems, geometry, contact points or the FDE parameters. The AI logic of the ESP sims is not simply moving 3D models around. These aircraft are actually really simulated, including the basic aircraft systems (electrical, hydraulics, engines => lights, gear, flaps, doors etc.).

Other than running a trial & error search I don't think that there is an actual tool for that. To check out the aircraft, you could use a tool that creates them as active AI at the press of a button, but I have no idea how to check out the flight plans. Maybe íf you can provoke the crash, you could proceed by exclusion, always cutting your AI library in half until you have narrowed it down.

Best regards

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Try Thumbnail Exporter X. A great freeware tool that will automatically scan through all your models and give you great reports.

I used this tool to scan through all my MT6 and WoAI models and I then removed all models not for FSX or P3D. 

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Thanks, where could i find that?  Google search didn't turn anything up

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8 hours ago, tooting said:

do you have the camsim 787 installed ??

 

I do, does this one have known issues?

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7 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

...or an incompatible AI flightplan. IMHO that has a higher probability of actually crashing your sim.

Thanks, I hadn't even considered that as a possibility, something else to look at.

Whatever it is, it doesn't cause crashes at my usual hubs (CYYZ, CYVR, CYUL, CYHZ) so I'm guessing it's one of my more obscure aircraft/flightplans, I'll have to start keeping a journal of where/when it happens to try and narrow it down.

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6 hours ago, regis9 said:

I do, does this one have known issues?

Yes that's your problem I guarantee it.  

Camsim 787

Uk2000 scenery (old fs9 bgls)

RWS Uae,  Qatar,  Bahrain 

All of those will ctd your sim 

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Thanks!  I'll nuke the camsim aircraft then, looks like inonly jad a single repaint which i should be able to replace.

I haven't installed any of my uk2000 airports yet.

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So this seems to be more complicated/strange than I originally thought.  The crashing only seems to happen at two payware airports: FSDT KMEM & KCLT.  In both cases, loading either airport will cause a crash with AI enabled.  No crash with AI disabled.  I haven't tested every airport I own, but I did test a few others with no crash: FSDT CYVR, FlyTampa CYYZ, SImaddons CYHZ.

Here's one of the error details:

Faulting application name: Prepar3D.exe, version: 4.0.28.21686, time stamp: 0x594a7255
Faulting module name: menus.dll, version: 4.0.28.21686, time stamp: 0x594a71cc
Exception code: 0xc000041d
Fault offset: 0x0000000000005100
Faulting process id: 0xd78
Faulting application start time: 0x01d2f52ae65fbc1e
Faulting application path: D:\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\Prepar3D.exe
Faulting module path: D:\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\menus.dll
Report Id: bbcf4de1-f446-48a5-951c-4891244ba373
Faulting package full name: 
Faulting package-relative application ID: 

Having previously read that menu.dll errors are caused by issues with addons, particularly in the exe.xml and dll.xml files, I looked at both of my xml.dll files and found that I had a XMLTools64 entry in both files.  I disabled the entry in one file.  That caused the crash to happen, but without an error message and an entry in event viewer.  With the XMLTools64 entry disabled in both xml.dll files, the crash happened again but with the error message and event viewer entry.

I'm at a loss here, it seems something is conflicting between AI and these airports?  All I know is something is screwed up and I'm running out of ideas...time to go to bed and maybe something will dawn on me tomorrow.

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Did you already remove any AI models other than FSX and P3D models?

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