jasonstory44

Best place to find AI models?

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Hi guys, so I've been getting into trying to configure UT Live and adding realistic liveries.

Where is the best place to find AI models?  I've downloaded everything from fsaibureau.  Starting to play with AIG, but I see very limited models there.  I've purchased the few payware models from simmarket.

I guess most of the jumbos are covered with those....but where would one find props and general aviation aircraft?

I've tried a search here but it seems like its mostly repaints unless I am not searching correctly.

 

Thanks Jason

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Jason,

Download a copy of the freeware AI Flight Planner (AIFP):

http://stuff4fs.com/open.asp?Folder=AIFP&JS=TRUE

To find all the liveries for freeware models for Southwest Airlines, download the 2017 schedule from AIG. Open the zipped file in AIFP, It will show you all the liveries that are needed to make that schedule work. Right click any of the missing liveries (they should all show up colored red which means that they are missing in your sim install). Then hit Install Repaint. A dialog box will open showing you all the missing liveries. Clicking on all of them will download all these liveries.

Now the hard part. Many of the freeware AI models are FAIB and you can download them from there:

http://fsxaibureau.com/manufacturing/

As to the rest, AIG has links to the either their own models and their forums have a thread "Looking for an AI Model?":

http://www.alpha-india.net/forums/index.php?topic=23926.0

Then it's just a matter of matching up the liveries and models and editing aircraft.cfg for every model. Tedious, but worth it in the long run.

Jay

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So we have to install individual files for each aircraft? I thought it would be one file that contains all the traffic information.

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1 hour ago, captain420 said:

So we have to install individual files for each aircraft? I thought it would be one file that contains all the traffic information.

If only it were that easy. I've been rebuilding mine from scratch since getting back into simming and it's what consumes most of my time. I've got a little over two months into it and am up to 150 airlines, and that doesn't even touch what the creators spend painting aircraft and putting together flight plans. It's a labor of love.

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5 hours ago, captain420 said:

So we have to install individual files for each aircraft? I thought it would be one file that contains all the traffic information.

That is where the commercial packages come into the mix, aimed at people who have neither the time or inclination to make their custom AI.As Aaron says above, it can be a Labour or Love but the finished product far outweighs the mass produced packages.

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IMHO this is one of the biggest shames in the whole community. That we are all individually required to put in weeks of work (or labour of love:-) to enjoy the work of the repainters and modellers. Why on earth they cannot get together and agree that it would be ok to share finished packages with repaints, schedules and models is beyond my comprehension. This is such an outdated way of "protecting" their free of charge intellectual property. 

A real shame. So much credit is due to the guys who do all the work, but it is so sad that they are not cooperating more. And we all waste so much time doing work that 1000s of other simmers have also had to do.

I really really wish this will change and that someone will get the ai community to come together and cooperate for the good of the users.

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4 hours ago, akamphaug said:

IMHO this is one of the biggest shames in the whole community. That we are all individually required to put in weeks of work (or labour of love:-) to enjoy the work of the repainters and modellers. Why on earth they cannot get together and agree that it would be ok to share finished packages with repaints, schedules and models is beyond my comprehension. This is such an outdated way of "protecting" their free of charge intellectual property. 

A real shame. So much credit is due to the guys who do all the work, but it is so sad that they are not cooperating more. And we all waste so much time doing work that 1000s of other simmers have also had to do.

I really really wish this will change and that someone will get the ai community to come together and cooperate for the good of the users.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this comment. 

With all the fabulous repaints available (and continually being updated for V4), it's a bit churlish to bemoan about the fact that you have to spend a few minutes of your own time downloading some zip files and editing a few text files to get them into the Sim. 

Personally, I'm just grateful that these guys give us their repaints and schedules for free. 

Gary 

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4 hours ago, akamphaug said:

IMHO this is one of the biggest shames in the whole community. That we are all individually required to put in weeks of work (or labour of love:-) to enjoy the work of the repainters and modellers. Why on earth they cannot get together and agree that it would be ok to share finished packages with repaints, schedules and models is beyond my comprehension. This is such an outdated way of "protecting" their free of charge intellectual property. 

A real shame. So much credit is due to the guys who do all the work, but it is so sad that they are not cooperating more. And we all waste so much time doing work that 1000s of other simmers have also had to do.

I really really wish this will change and that someone will get the ai community to come together and cooperate for the good of the users.

You're right in a way, but it would be such a massive effort to collate all the different models, repaints and flightplans that the nobody would do it all for free and you'll find yourself back at the point of paying for a commercial package.

To be fair, the other hindrance at this time is that many of the models currently in use were made yonks ago by people no longer in the simming community. Therefore they are hardly likely to be inclined to put hours more work into a project they have no intention of benefiting from. However, to their credit, the vast majority of modellers that have been able to be contacted have happily given their permission for their intellectual property to be modified, they don't seem overly precious or protective of it. However one caveat is that their freeware is not to be sold on in a package, which is fair enough. There is a team over at AIG working on updating a number of FS9 models for P3Dv4. Many of those people also spend many hours producing flight-plans and repaints for the rest of us.

 

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I used freeware AI models for, well, an eternity.  Since moving to P3DV4 I decided to try Ultimate Traffic again, and I have to say that I haven't been happier.  No more work, and the models aren't hard on frames.  It also has some great features like jetways moving to arriving aircraft and moving away from aircraft pushing back all over the airport.

I'd recommend giving it a shot.  I think there is a trial available, but don't quote me on that.

Best wishes.

 

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2 hours ago, garydpoole said:

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this comment. 

With all the fabulous repaints available (and continually being updated for V4), it's a bit churlish to bemoan about the fact that you have to spend a few minutes of your own time downloading some zip files and editing a few text files to get them into the Sim. 

Personally, I'm just grateful that these guys give us their repaints and schedules for free. 

Gary 

I am also forever grateful, I love the models and all their work  

But it does not take minutes. It takes days. And even worse, it takes all of us days. That is a pity, that is a waste of time and should be possible to improve. 

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1 hour ago, DaveCT2003 said:

It also has some great features like jetways moving to arriving aircraft and moving away from aircraft pushing back all over the airport.

That's all well and good until you fly over a large airport at FL 380 and framerates tank while 200 jetways suddenly have to move themselves into the correct position.  Personally, I comment out all the exit data in the AI aircraft .cfg files to avoid it.

... and as much as I respect the work done by the AI community, I agree that they are constantly shooting themselves in the foot.  So much of their effort goes to waste because most sane people don't want to spend months (not minutes) tediously assembling models, paints, and schedules.

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2 hours ago, Ian S said:

You're right in a way, but it would be such a massive effort to collate all the different models, repaints and flightplans that the nobody would do it all for free and you'll find yourself back at the point of paying for a commercial package.

To be fair, the other hindrance at this time is that many of the models currently in use were made yonks ago by people no longer in the simming community. Therefore they are hardly likely to be inclined to put hours more work into a project they have no intention of benefiting from. However, to their credit, the vast majority of modellers that have been able to be contacted have happily given their permission for their intellectual property to be modified, they don't seem overly precious or protective of it. However one caveat is that their freeware is not to be sold on in a package, which is fair enough. There is a team over at AIG working on updating a number of FS9 models for P3Dv4. Many of those people also spend many hours producing flight-plans and repaints for the rest of us.

 

I agree with you in parts. But if I do not understand why it is too much work to collate and distribute, yet that is what all of us do individually? It would be great if the community could find a way to share these files in an easier way. I have a perfectly amazing setup I have spent days compiling, but I am not allowed to share that with anyone. We all have to spend days creating it ourselves. Maybe someone could create a program that could subscribe to repositories from the modellers or something. In any case, it is a ton of work, and we all do it, I just wish someone would make it easier and less repetitive. 

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I absolutely agree with you. I am very grateful for all of the work that AI modellers/painters/flightplan builders do for the community, but I can't help feeling that sometimes they are rather too protective of their work. After all, this is freeware. The only condition should be that it remains free. As an example, the Fernando Martinez Bae 146 models need to be updated to work in P3D v4, but apparently the original developer is no longer involved in the community, and therefore this conversion work can't be done because of lack of permission. In my view, if someone else is capable (and willing) to update the models, then they should do it (assuming that they have tried and failed to make contact with the original developer as a courtesy). It just seems at times that the freeware community creates problems where none should exist.

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As people have pointed out, the biggest shame is not that someone has to put in the work to put everything together, but that everyone has to put in the same work to put everything together, over and over and over again (with the result, of course, that the overwhelming majority of simmers just don't bother, and thus never see the work of the repainters/modelers/flightplan compilers). It's insane, and I have to admit I'm totally baffled by the people who insist that the situation is appropriate and normal. Ok, maybe it has to be this way because of copyright law -- but are you really going to argue that the situation is in the best interests of, well, anybody?

I've spent what probably amounts to full weeks of my time putting together a set of custom AI, which is beautiful in the end. But I hate that I had to spend so much time reinventing the wheel, and also that no one else can have it unless they also spend huge amounts of time. I wish that, as a community, we could find a solution to this problem.

Also: if someone can explain to me how a freeware developer might have an enforceable copyright claim against someone who compiled their work without their permission and posted it, I'd love to hear it (genuinely). Two issues you might like to address in your answer: 1) What would the measure of the damages be, if the compiler doesn't charge for it and the original developer didn't either? and 2) If the original painter/developer has used the protected work of another entity (e.g. Airbus or Delta) without permission, does that affect their claim?

James

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It literally took me like 10 min to do a huge airline like British Airways.  Not sure what you are all crying about with putting in time.  I barely get an hour or 2 to fly a night and had no problem updating many airlines.  Also you don't have to do EVERY airline.  Some small Asian airline with 6 aircraft you'll probably never see is not really needed. 

The people who put together the AI models, flightplans, and the program to implement all of them have done a huge effort in order to make it EASIER on us.  AIFP literally makes it a snap to implement up to date flightplans and download and install correct models/paints. 

They copyright to avoid someone taking their FREE work, repackaging and selling said work as their own. Thus taking advantage of this great community.  We've seen it many times.  Every time its called something different whether its ICE, SKAI, or something else.  

The compiler if he decides not to charge for it all he has to do is ask permission from FAIB or AIG etc.  But they NEVER do.  It would be such a simple email.  But they never ask. 

Also they are probably wary of some compiler who doesn't know what they are doing, screw something up.  Then the blame will be on AIG, FAIB etc not the compiler. 

They test, they know what works, and all you have to do is use AIFP.  Simple. 

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1 hour ago, MadDog said:

That's all well and good until you fly over a large airport at FL 380 and framerates tank while 200 jetways suddenly have to move themselves into the correct position.  Personally, I comment out all the exit data in the AI aircraft .cfg files to avoid it.

... and as much as I respect the work done by the AI community, I agree that they are constantly shooting themselves in the foot.  So much of their effort goes to waste because most sane people don't want to spend months (not minutes) tediously assembling models, paints, and schedules.

Well im one of the many repainters out there and believe me...we dont do it for you...we do it for us and you just tag along if you want...one thing that cannot be permitted is some users packing all our work and selling them for a fee...that is not right...

cheers

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3 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

I used freeware AI models for, well, an eternity.  Since moving to P3DV4 I decided to try Ultimate Traffic again, and I have to say that I haven't been happier.  No more work, and the models aren't hard on frames.  It also has some great features like jetways moving to arriving aircraft and moving away from aircraft pushing back all over the airport.

I'd recommend giving it a shot.  I think there is a trial available, but don't quote me on that.

Best wishes.

 

That is almost like my story... I have gone the hard way with freeware everything. When I moved from FSX to P3D I also left all that tweaking behind and bought the MyTraffic. No more installing over over again! But I am not totally happy, the models in MT look just terrible and the schedules are not accurate.

Does UT have GA and military traffic? Are the models and schedules ok? I am willing to pay if I get good AI-traffic without too much work.

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31 minutes ago, honanhal said:

As people have pointed out, the biggest shame is not that someone has to put in the work to put everything together, but that everyone has to put in the same work to put everything together, over and over and over again (with the result, of course, that the overwhelming majority of simmers just don't bother, and thus never see the work of the repainters/modelers/flightplan compilers). It's insane, and I have to admit I'm totally baffled by the people who insist that the situation is appropriate and normal. Ok, maybe it has to be this way because of copyright law -- but are you really going to argue that the situation is in the best interests of, well, anybody?

I've spent what probably amounts to full weeks of my time putting together a set of custom AI, which is beautiful in the end. But I hate that I had to spend so much time reinventing the wheel, and also that no one else can have it unless they also spend huge amounts of time. I wish that, as a community, we could find a solution to this problem.

Also: if someone can explain to me how a freeware developer might have an enforceable copyright claim against someone who compiled their work without their permission and posted it, I'd love to hear it (genuinely). Two issues you might like to address in your answer: 1) What would the measure of the damages be, if the compiler doesn't charge for it and the original developer didn't either? and 2) If the original painter/developer has used the protected work of another entity (e.g. Airbus or Delta) without permission, does that affect their claim?

James

1. Socialism is dead...best interests of well anybody...

2. let say you made a freeware project...and 2 days later you see your own project in the web and some selling thousands of copies for just 1 dollar each download...let see how you feel about copyright then...

 

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Is the status quo really in the interest of the repainters and modelers, though? Sure, in theory they avoid their work being appropriated without credit being given (although we all know that does still happen). But they also end up with way fewer people using it, because most simmers just don't compile their own AI packages. I don't doubt that some of the creators are fine with that tradeoff, but are all of them?

James

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let say you made a freeware project...and 2 days later you see your own project in the web and some selling thousands of copies for just 1 dollar each download...let see how you feel about copyright then...

He is not talking about people selling freeware illegally. He is talking about making the result of weeks of work available to someone else so that they do not have to reinvent the wheel. It makes perfect sense. As for taking 10 minutes to create an entire package for British Airways......I have spent a massive amount of time over the years creating a custom model/repaint database for airlines/military aircraft that fly in and out of the UK and Ireland, and the vast majority of the airlines that I added/modified took a LOT longer than 10 minutes to create. To be fair, I tend to adjust many of the fltsim.cfg entries, like adding missing atc_id registrations, or adding individual registrations to texture statements/folders so that they make more sense....instead of stuff like NC/OC/webtitles/unnamed/white etc. Nevertheless, it still takes time to add all of the entries to existing aircraft folders.

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31 minutes ago, aamontoy said:

Well im one of the many repainters out there and believe me...we dont do it for you...we do it for us and you just tag along if you want...one thing that cannot be permitted is some users packing all our work and selling them for a fee...that is not right...

cheers

Thanks for participating in the thread, I am really curious, As a repainter, is the current situation ideal for you? Could you imagine a scenario where an application (think FTX central) would download and subscribe to your repaints. Would that be ok? What about an opt in model where you could submit your repaints to a centrally operated repository that would let users download it as part of a package (for free of course)? Both options I think are better for us users than hunting for models, then repaints, then flightplans, then compiling. But obviously a new way of doing things would have to work for all parties. I just feel like we are stuck with a system here that really is no good. The update to V4 literally means doing everything all over again for me, and that is just no good. 

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