pracines

Interesting topic.... the comments are even more interesting

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MovingMap-gate, lol!    DLC is fine and most would welcome it.  But I fear they will live to regret making a basic moving map, paid DLC.  It just gives a concerning impression that the core sim will not be further considerably developed (at least in terms of features) and that everything else (weather, ATC, etc) will be further payware DLC.

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31 minutes ago, pracines said:

Hopefully DTG will get the message.  

Hopefully petitioners soon understand that they are not living in a dream world.

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13 minutes ago, JYW said:

It just gives a concerning impression that the core sim will not be further considerably developed (at least in terms of features) and that everything else (weather, ATC, etc) will be further payware DLC.

Do you really think the core sim is now fully developed?

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Just now, torium said:

Do you really think the core sim is now fully developed?

No!  My whole point was that it's not fully developed but that people are worrying that it now won't be developed furher (ie.. have new features added) as it seems DTG might farm all new features development out to 3rd parties, as payware DLC.

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32 minutes ago, torium said:

Hopefully petitioners soon understand that they are not living in a dream world.

Hopefully fools will get wisdom. 

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I know that this is hindsight, but if FSW had been released 6 months earlier, its market would have been broader. The flight sim market is oversaturated with quality base sims. Utilizing 3rd party developers is a way for DTG to catch up in terms of features.

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1 hour ago, pracines said:

Cryss promotes the DTG third party approach...

http://store.steampowered.com/news/externalpost/steam_community_announcements/2143012757607475466

Look at the reaction from most....its like a mob is starting to form.

Yup, with the attendant level of intelligent comment a mob usually contributes, i.e. none whatsoever. What part of the concept of third party developers being businesses, is it that these people are not getting? 

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27 minutes ago, Chock said:

Yup, with the attendant level of intelligent comment a mob usually contributes, i.e. none whatsoever. What part of the concept of third party developers being businesses, is it that these people are not getting? 

The risk Alan is as i said from the very beginning, the casuals, the Steam users that people (including you actually) were saying would flock to FSW and displace us old timers, are unhappy with the state of FSW; they don't want too, or expect too, pay money for the sim they got for less than the cost of an add-on aircraft.  Meanwhile, the majority of the old timers and if you'll forgive the term 'whales'  have largely moved over to P3Dv4 or X-Plane.

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I think DTG need to be careful here. I worry that if they give the wrong impression as this appears to be, the sim could easily end up like another Flight. This is an early access release and it can easily give the wrong impression to customers to start releasing the likes of moving maps and basic camera controls as DLC at this stage of development. I have no problem with DLC aircraft and airports but the core sim needs to be finished before we start seeing the likes of moving maps for sale. Otherwise it just comes across as a money grab. And nobody likes a money grab even if we are all aware that profits need to be made. It's not only about the debate of what should be included in the core sim and what should be DLC, the danger is that it's more about the fact that it sends completely the wrong message to supporters like myself who really want this sim to succeed.

I have enormous respect for DTG's engagement with the community just as I have with the guys at Laminar. It makes me happy to see DTG's employees actively engage with us and it in turn, it makes us feel like we are a part of something and that our opinions and our custom matters to them. This is something that is generally lost in today's world in almost every industry and it is great to feel this is sincere from the likes of Cryss and Aime. However, the tide can turn pretty fast or maybe even faster given the perceived sincerity when poor marketing and sales decisions are subsequently made. It makes people feel a little betrayed for putting their trust and believe in the hope that this time things were going to be 'different' and that we somehow matter as the end user. I am not saying I feel hard done by in anyway here as I a little more understanding than that, but this is more of an observation of how I believe many people consciously or subconsciously feel; and often why great products fail.

I truly hope that this is just a misunderstanding and that the roadmap for FSW is completed in a way that gives us a solid core simulator without the need to have to purchase absolute basics like a moving map and basic camera controls.

My two cents.

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DTG are just here to milk the cow. Time to realize that guys. There are better ways to spend your $.

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26 minutes ago, WotanUK said:

The risk Alan is as i said from the very beginning, the casuals, the Steam users that people (including you actually) were saying would flock to FSW and displace us old timers, are unhappy with the state of FSW; they don't want too, or expect too, pay money for the sim they got for less than the cost of an add-on aircraft.  Meanwhile, the majority of the old timers and if you'll forgive the term 'whales'  have largely moved over to P3Dv4 or X-Plane.

Generally speaking, people will go to something which does what they want best, and where flight sims are concerned (at least a civilian one with airliners etc) at the moment that is P3D V4, largely by virtue of the amount of developers happy to work on the platform, and its 64 bit architecture, but there are in fact still a number of things which FSX does in fact do better than P3D.

Whilst also 64 bit, XPlane 11 still isn't the complete solution for that because of a few pieces of the puzzle not being in place yet. It looks like those missing pieces are coming, but they ain't here yet. So this doesn't mean P3D V4 will remain in its happy position; improvements to XPlane which enable developers to use their skills to best advantage might eclipse it, as indeed might FSW if it ends up being able to do many things better than P3D and for less money, and like XPlane 11, FSW already does several things better, even in its unfinished state. And let's not forget AeroFly's FS2 is also in the 64 bit mix as well.

So like FSX is for DTG, or at least was until the 64 bit version of P3D offered a compelling enough reason for its users to switch to Lockheed Martin's offering (principally VAS), FSW offers that same opportunity; a relatively complete sim for casual users who might buy the odd Steam add-on, but also a 64 bit platform for TPDs who want to push its content with more costly and complex stuff not sold exclusively through Steam.

DTG will have to tread carefully of course, they are not out of the woods yet, but the notion that a few people complaining about a moving map payware add-on and refusing to buy it somehow signifies we should all be heading to the lifeboat deck where FSW is concerned, is at the very least a bit premature. I wouldn't buy that moving map or camera slew thing either (for any flight sim, let alone FSW), but it doesn't mean I wouldn't buy other stuff, and indeed have, for FSW, in fact I bought that Just Flight PA-28 for FSX, P3D and FSW and would have done for XPlane 11 too if it was in a bit more of a rounded state than it presently is.

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I see it as just more noise from the woefully uninformed. Folks who're using emotions rather than logic as a means to transform their opinions into alternate facts... :dry:

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22 minutes ago, Chock said:

So like FSX is for DTG, or at least was until the 64 bit version of P3D offered a compelling enough reason for its users to switch to Lockheed Martin's offering (principally VAS), FSW offers that same opportunity; a relatively complete sim for casual users who might buy the odd Steam add-on, but also a 64 bit platform for TPDs who want to push its content with more costly and complex stuff not sold exclusively through Steam.

I agree with most of what you said; but this is wrong.  FSW doesn't fill any niche, that is the whole problem.  If you like Airliners but don't have a lot of money, or you are just causally interested, then you are stuck with FSX.  If you like GA i would suggest that Aerofly has much better performance and visuals, albeit in a more limited area.  But even that isn't a selling point for FSW, we all know that most areas in P3D / FSX / FSW all look very much the same without large amounts of add on scenery.  So what does that leave for FSW, military flying??  I would say DCS is the better choice for that.  

The serious simmers, the ones who are willing to spend money (sometimes silly amounts) are all going to be using P3D or X-Plane and frankly (I can only speak for me) but FSW would have to offer something remarkable for me to move from P3D and thus end up purchasing everything again.

FSW missed the boat, it effectively had an open goal but releasing with no airliners, no significant 3rd party support (or at the very least questionable business decisions), not manifestly different from FSX (something that could also be said about P3D) and perhaps most significantly no SDK.  I just don't see any market for FSW beyond people who buy when Steam have a sale and never touch it again.

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35 minutes ago, steve310002 said:

This is an early access release and it can easily give the wrong impression to customers to start releasing the likes of moving maps and basic camera controls as DLC at this stage of development.

fs-flightcontrol already sold their software for FSX, FSX: SE, P3D, X-Plane 10/11 and FSW on their own website. Many do not like Dovetail allowing a 3rd party developer selling the same (downscaled) product on Steam. Humans are mostly irrational.

 

 

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