G'day John,>That's true to a certain extent. However, there's some>developers who try to "make a statement" by setting a price. >As if to say "Look, my product is the most expensive, so it>must be the best!"John that's simply a marketing ploy and is in existance for all commercial products. Simmers are their own worst enemy. No matter what price the developer finally settles on it is up to the simmers to either accept/reject the price. Nobody is having their arms twisted. IMHO none of the current payware aircraft are as faithfully reproduced as the HYPE would have you believe. It is up to the individual to make his/her own decision.>that's a $1000 value for only three easy payments of $99.95!>Hey it works quite well on the late night shoping guide on TV :-)>I still think infomercial type hucksterism stinks when it>comes to promoting products in our hobby. Unfortunately this eminates from within the simming community. Simmers posting glowing reports on an aircraft they have just purchased and the use of signature banners. It's all part of the hype.Cheers,Roger

>If you don't like the price you simply don't buy it...period.>Coming onto the forums and complaining about it, when everyone>knows who you are talking about, is just a sneaky way of>getting a sideways shot in at that company. >>How sickening. >> People charging more for add-ons than FS itself costs is sickening. Anybody charging more than 20 or 30 bucks for an add-on is asking for shots... sideways, head-on or whatever. NO add-on is worth that. None. Period. With that said, I've purchased 1 item that cost more than that. It's a great program, but certainly not worth what I paid. Not only does the guy have a right to complain, he has an obligation as a consumer. How else is a merchant supposed to know he's charging too much? You say vote with your wallet, but the seller has no idea how many wallets remain closed because his price is too high. Let's face it, the people selling FS ad-ons are mainly programmers and simmers... not businessmen. They don't do marketing research, aside from scanning the FS forums, where there is always some blabbermouth saying he would pay way too much for something. Because a few people have more money than brains, prices are too high. They're not selling gasoline here, where public sentiment is easily noticed (though, it is true that gas prices are artificially high, due to overregulation and taxation). This is a small market and a relatively new market with little history to rely on. The average person who thinks it's a rip, just moves on without saying a peep. Think of it like writing your congressman (or equivelent). The standard goes something like.. for every letter they receive, this represents 100 people, for every e-mail, this represents 25 people. While many people may be ######, they know only a small percentage actually put pen to paper (or a slightly greater percentage hit the keyboard, due to ease of use)The problem is, there are not enough people are complaining. It's my belief that there is a vocal minority of simmers who wake up in the morning, power up their computer with a credit card tucked in the waistband of their underwear. They post on the forums how much they've blown on FS, and how much more they're willing to blow. And whenever someone complains, they gripe that it's "bashing" someone. Well, I for one, am sick of it. I understand the addiction.. my better half thinks I'm insane, because I sit in front of the computer for hours staring at the same thing (to her) and occasionally clicking at stuff. But, there's a limit to the insanity. I can afford $55 for an add-on aircraft, but I simply can't justify the expense. I'm not a cheapskate, but I don't like to set fire to dead presidents, either. Thus, that heavy airliner I waited for months for, sits at the seller, unpurchased. They have no idea. I haven't mentioned it... Well, I did, but that thread mysteriously disappeared when AVSIM crashed... all other threads remained... I'm sure it has nothing to do with the seller being an advertiser.. I'm pretty naive. Just not naive enough to spend $55 on an add-on. Yes, I mean you-know-who, and I'm you-know-what. On top of that, I have the "free" equivelent from the AVSIM library. Buggy? You bet. So is FS. I think fixing the bugs is half the fun. And well worth the money. :-hah The money I saved was well spent on cold beer and grass seed for my pathetic lawn. And I DO mean equivelent. Freeware or not. I wanted a complex 744 panel and by golly I got one. A nice one at that. I've flown this plane exclusively for the last month. The more I tweak it and fly it, the more I love it. I didn't waste $55. Life is good. Before you go bashing a consumer, who was merely stating his opinion, maybe you should take in to consideration, not everyone can afford to blow what you consider to be chump change on add-ons and furthermore, not everyone WANTS to blow rediculous amounts of cash to satisfy this totally voluntary addiction, regardless of net worth. What you can waste money on now, can be had for less, if ye are patient, as I learned with the overpriced TCAS I bought. The free one was much better than the $25 one I bought... i.e. it actually worked. Thus, my diagnosis is: you are overly addicted to payware hacks who overcharge for crap that can be had, if not now, certainly soon, for less. My prescription is: take two seconds and put that Visa back in your wallet, and when someone voices an opinion on the price of add-ons, take two St.Josephs Chewable Valium for Children and don't call for a while. Dr. Payless has spoken. If you want to bash me too, though I haven't actually called anyone by name, I'll be out of town for a week. When I return, I'll give you a follow up prognosis. (If this thread doesn't disappear, as well) It's time to let the payware developers know, we love what they're doing. But, they'll have a buttload of customers, and make alot more money if they keep prices reasonbable. NOBODY wants to be ripped off.

>So with the complaints already rolling when it comes to>payware prices, my question is how much is too much. I just>went to look at a certain 737NG package being that it is the>only payware NG since PMDG. I bought my PMDG NG's for ~ $39>originally and then $29 for the add-on. This particular>add-on that I looked at was:>49 Pounds for the base>29 pounds for the upgrade>13 pounds for each airline pack X 6>>Soooooo If I want to purchase their NG package, it is 158>pounds per NG. 6-7-8-9 are all ~ 160 pounds eqach when you>buy the packs. 160 x 4 = 640 pounds. Now you do the>conversion and it is probably well over $900.>>Again, how much is too much, this is absolutely ridiculous. >Then, when you read the website you realize that if you buy a>new PC you might end up having to pay their $900 all over to>re-install. In rare circumstances they MIGHT let you>re-install. Otherwise you are buying it all over again.>>IMHO. this is getting ridiculous. How can someone justify>$900 for 4 aircraft for a sim that cost $49. >Man this just ruffled my feathers when I saw their prices and>I decided to get others feedback. How much is too much? Do>people agree that this is beyond ridiculous or will people>really pay 160 pounds per a/c. Not me...>-PaulI thought when prices started getting up in the 50-60 dollar range things were getting bad, but this is absolute ludicrous! All I can say is if anyone is even thinking of spending this type of money for an Add-on to a program that was only $49.99 when new, and can be bought today for $29.99 at Walmart, should listen to the Shania Twain song Ka-Ching! before laying down their credit card on this one!!

Just wanted to say thanks for the support on my original post. Glad we were able to get it back on topic...Thanks everyone, good opinions here...-PaulLiquid CooledAMD 4000 San Diego2 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2Dual 7800 GTX 24 inch widescreen dual 19 inch LCDRaid-0

For what it's worth it surely depends how much effort they have to put in. In the case of something like the Majestic Dash 8 Q300 where the guy worked quite closely with DeHavilland to get it right, even having access to their simulators, and I bet that wasn't cheap for him, (when over here an hour with 3 other ppl in a 737 full motion costs upwards of

Well said John, and so very true.

Eek wrote:"People charging more for add-ons than FS itself costs is sickening

When I was in model railroading, I used to buy HO locomotives that were hand-crafted in brass. They would cost several hundred dollers a just for one, and that was usually un-painted. But they were all hand made with hundreds of hours of craftmanship put into them. Pretty much like our models here. Instead of metal we are using bits and bytes here..

Why does everyone get worked up over this?It is a free market, they can charge what they like, and *we* choose whether or not to buy. There are enough alternatives out there that I don't think there is any monopolistic forces impacting payware addons. There are lots of freeware and payware alternatives. I've never felt pressure to buy any particular addon. Actually with all the choices out there, I actually am more selective now than I used to be with addons.

What I find interesting is their price never seems to go down over the life of the product. Which if they were not able to get a return on their investment they would not be able to sustain their price. They would have to lower it or offer a discount somewhere along the line to boost sales.So clearly their own sales numbers are telling them the market can bear the price they are asking.If anything the silent majority are clearly those who can't wait to get their hands on any new product this company releases.The reason this bothers some people is because even though they 'choose' not to buy it because they don't agree with the price, they still 'want' it badly. Else why would these people continually be making such a big fuss over the price ? And if this company is making a product people want that badly, then they seem to be doing the right thing and should be able to charge whatever the market will bear.Regards.Ernie.

"How much is too much???"For a PMDG quality A320 series, MD11, 737NG series, etc.... I'd say nothing over $150.00 USD per add-on... When you think of the research that goes into bringing us these high end add-ons, I

The most expensive add-on I own is the PMDG 744.I've read a *lot* of people say that it was far too expensive for it, or any add-on for that matter.As someone earlier alluded to, it depends on your usage of it. Look at any screenshot forum and you'll see a lot of users focusing purely on looks and sticking to the autopilot and the "standard" flying routines. I've seen posts from people asking to replace the PMDG panel with the FS 747 panel, or how to use the FS GPS within it. Thats not a snobby comment, but you need to remember what you're paying for.A large part of your cost is going towards the highly realistic modelling. I would bet that 99% of the people who complain about the cost of such a product never use more than 10% of this realism.This is why I think the current move of selling seperate "blocks" of flight sim is a very good idea. Give the eye candy people a good looking model with easy dynamics and FS GPS enabled panels, and give the realism nuts options for systems modelling and realistic dynamics.

"Fine! I'd like a Ferrari but I can't afford one so I make do with my Toyota."Exactly my point. It would be a shame if the best software FS add ons would be out of reach for the majority of users and affordable only to "Ferrari drivers".

Thats another story alright, artificially inflated prices allowed by an administration in bed with the oil companies. If thats not the case then why were oil company profits the highest in history last year. Of course they will profit even more this year. Software development is not cheap but definitely profitable or else everyone would be making freeware for fun. Have you seen the engravity cdu being marketed on the PMDG website $1299. This is hardware, I know, but they want another 100$ Just to interface it with their 747 and 737 if I understood correctly (if I am incorrect please correct me). #### Ive already given them like 200 dollars for the 747,747F,737NG600,700,800,900,Beech1900 C/D yes great products worth every penny but why 100 dollars for an interface with a hardware product.

>>>Exactly my point. It would be a shame if the best software FS>add ons would be out of reach for the majority of users and>affordable only to "Ferrari drivers".You have a point. I always wondered why they prized GA aircrafts like Cessna 172S so high.That piece of T-Model automobile....err Aircraft is prized at $250,000 while A $15,000 Hundyai has more sophisticated parts and engines... just don't make sense to me.What does a GA aircraft have? Simple manua control for rudder, Aileron, Eelvator by some cables and pullies. a simple engine... and some basic guages... Pfffft. (I am serious). Its a shame that GA aircrafts are not avaulable for majority users like me.:)Manny