ssair1

Dynamic Lighting!

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After a considerable amount of time spent experimenting and attempting at tweaks, I've finally decided that the costs of the "dynamic lighting" feature of Prepar3dv4, in terms of performance, far outweigh its benefits. How many times have you experienced studders and low frame rates during your most critical phases of flight, i.e attempting that blissful flare prior to touchdown? Well, it felt amazing to uncheck "dynamic lighting" in my graphics settings and get that smoothness back, without even having to wait for my sim to reload :) Please tell me about your experience, are you running it or not? Is there any hope for "dynamic lighting" at the end of the dark tunnel? :) 

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With moderate settings at KSFO at night using Flightbeam's SFO v2, I am seeing locked 30 fps with no stutters and it being perfectly smooth. It seems to depend system to system.

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21 minutes ago, Mitch24 said:

Enjoy your dark and bleak unrealistic night flying!

What a sarcastic comment! Although the "Dynamic Lighting" feature is an attempt at realism, it does NOT disable lighting. I would advise you to do some research before posting up a response in this forum, Mitch. 

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You and everyone else. Seriously, people are posting this stuff as if they are the first ones to take notice.....

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1 hour ago, Milton Waddams said:

With moderate settings at KSFO at night using Flightbeam's SFO v2, I am seeing locked 30 fps with no stutters and it being perfectly smooth. It seems to depend system to system.

Good points, Milton; it really does vary system to system. Anyways, since my first post, I realized that it was actually a high SSAA setting that was the culprit of my low fps, especially with the landing and taxi lights on full blast. I went from 4xSSAA to 2xMSAA and noticed a considerable improvement in FPS and smoothness. In terms of locking in my FPS, I've noticed better performance on unlimited and kept it as such, would you recommend otherwise? 

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1 hour ago, Mitch24 said:

Enjoy your dark and bleak unrealistic night flying!

What a silly comment! Dynamic lighting isn't all that!

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After seeing that DL was limited from the start and then the performance penalty, I just left it unchecked from day 1. I am fine with the old lighting system where I can achieve a smooth flight.

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Why is it so important to get in the last word...quick, someone post after me!

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7 minutes ago, jimcarrel said:

Why is it so important to get in the last word...quick, someone post after me!

You gotta get in before the lock!

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You are probably using display settings that are too high and running your system at 4k.

Now what hardware do you have? If anybody wants to use DL under 4k with SSAA enabled it just has unrealistic expectations.

This has been explained here in the forums before several times.

For DL to work under 4k you need to forget about SSAA and be sure you have a monster of a video card, 1080ti is highly recommended.

Simbol 

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If it wasn't for Vic and the occasional use of his big gun (the lock) these forums would look like a nasty scene from GTA V 

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9 hours ago, ssair1 said:

What a sarcastic comment! Although the "Dynamic Lighting" feature is an attempt at realism, it does NOT disable lighting. I would advise you to do some research before posting up a response in this forum, Mitch. 

well, it does for e.g. PMDG. So not fully sarcastic, just a bit short mouthed ;).

But yeah, I'm also still doubting, but for now.. I just love the dynamic lights on Ai and online flying.. somehow

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First of all, 1080Ti is NOT able to deal with DL under 4K, even without ANY antialiasing. The performance impact is enormous and it is only a question of circumstances (the number of light sources), when it will completely destroy your FPS, immersion and beliefs :)

DL should be considered an experimental feature. All products, which force users to use DL without an option of the legacy lighting, should also be considered experimental and I think they are not fully P3D4 compatible.

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I disagree, I have plenty of customers using DL under 4k, of course the compromise in other parts of their settings.

Simbol 

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Just out of curiosity, could someone please tell me why PMDG hardcoded the exterior lights in the NGX to only be available when using DL? 

Gary 

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Just now, garydpoole said:

Just out of curiosity, could someone please tell me why PMDG hardcoded the exterior lights in the NGX to only be available when using DL? 

Gary 

Lol ask PMDG.

Many planes are implementing this though as it is the way forward and how LM is instructing models to be done on their SDK instructions.

S.

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16 minutes ago, garydpoole said:

Just out of curiosity, could someone please tell me why PMDG hardcoded the exterior lights in the NGX to only be available when using DL? 

Gary 

Really due to people wanting them to and it being too much to maintain both legacy lighting and dynamic lighting. They had to pick one and they picked dynamic lighting.

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1 hour ago, sbs9 said:

First of all, 1080Ti is NOT able to deal with DL under 4K, even without ANY antialiasing.

Absolute BS.  I have one and am using it with 4K and MSAA with no serious FPS issues.  

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3 hours ago, ieydis said:

Absolute BS.  I have one and am using it with 4K and MSAA with no serious FPS issues.  

OK, here we go:

1080Ti - 8700K at 4.8GHz - 4K - 4xMSAA - ORBX ESSA - FSLabs A320 - no weather - no traffic - dynamic lighting OFF = 51 FPS:ESSA-DL-OFF-51FPS.jpg?dl=1

Dynamic lighting ON - all other things equal = 23 FPS:ESSA-DL-ON-23FPS.jpg?dl=1

Dynamic lighting ON - added A320 taxi, landing and dome dynamic lights - all other things equal = 14 FPS:ESSA-DL-ON-ALL-LIGHTS-14FPS.jpg?dl=1

The truth is:

  1. At the moment, the implementation of DL in P3D4 is seriously wrong. XP11 achieves the same effect with a substantially lower performance impact.
     
  2. Developers use DL due to the following reasons (in order of importance):
  • Profit - a new technology = excitement, competitive advantage = sales
  • Belief or, hopefully, information that DL will be corrected and perform ok in the foreseeable future
  • Lack of knowledge or/and proper testing methodology.

By the way, the default value of DL in P3D4 is OFF. And there is not a single default simobject relying solely on DL, all support the "legacy" lighting.

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9 minutes ago, sbs9 said:

And there is not a single default simobject relying solely on DL, all support the "legacy" lighting.

Again I disagree, lots of default planes that come with PD3V4 depends of DL as their default lights effects use it to operate.

The F16 for an instance use DL and all AI traffic landing and Taxi lights use DL, the setting that says “airplanes lights illuminate the runway" overrides your DL setting and use this technology for the AI traffic landing and Taxi lights regardless of your preference about DL.

On your test you should use a default Aircraft like the beech baron and not the FL labs A320 as the factor of your FPS drop might be the payware plane rather than the DL technology alone.

For example if they designed their landing and Taxi lights with very large cone lights it will affect the DL performance under 4k, it is the responsibility of developers to use the technology wisely.

Simbol 

 

 

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With all due respect to those who are gamely trying to put the best face on this, it's now beyond clear that DL has a massive, and disproportionate, impact on performance regardless of what AA (or no AA) you use. Roman's demonstration shows that crystal clear (Simbol, you're right that addon aircraft can be more or less well-optimized, but what the test shows is that DL on its own has a huge effect when you hold other settings constant, even with MSAA -- which people keep saying isn't the case).

I look forward to LM fixing the DL performance, but in the meantime PMDG needs to urgently rethink its "DL or nothing" approach to lights on its aircraft. DL just isn't ready for primetime, and it makes no sense to put all your eggs in one very wonky basket.

James

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Simbol, are you serious? :) May I ask you:

  1. What is the default value for dynamic lighting in P3D4? ON or OFF?
  2. Please name just one default P3D4 simobject, which depends solely on DL. It means, its lights do not work when DL is OFF in the settings. 
  3. You say that if I have 51 FPS with DL OFF and 23 FPS with DL ON in the same aircraft, the reason for the difference is the aircraft? 

I undestand that your product is based on DL and, thus, you want to promote the technology. But I thing it would be better to (loudly) speak to LM about the problem than trying to mask it. Better for the community and for your product, too.

Roman

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