Improvements in V4.3

[NorwegianAviator 60]

I wonder how long we will have to wait for them to start improving the sim and fixing old legacy bugs from FSX, and not just fix simdirector bugs etc that none of us end users will benefit from at all. v4.2 came out mid february and gave us more or less nothing new, and now 4.3 in the end of june, still giving us nothing to write home about. That's about 4.5 months, and not very much has ever happened on the platform since the release of v4. Most improvements on the sim stopped around v3.2-v3.3. V2 gave us a lot of graphical improvements and was a very interesting version. Same thing with v3, up to around 3.2 or 3.3. V4 gave us 64bit and dynamic landinglights, plus improved vr support. But the list stops there. I don't want to sound negative, but I'm loosing faith in this sim more and more after each update as there is no real progress. I've been using P3D since v1.3 and I would love to continue to use it in the upcoming years, but right now I feel that the platform has come to a halt.

😳

[newtie 533]

Funny how you mentioned this. I was just commenting to my self yesterday how far flight simulation has come and is going. KLAS  > KSFO at FL28 in my Lear 35 @ 472 knots indicated  through ASN weather being guided by a remarkable IVONA voice coming through Pilot2ATC. Everything right on the money.

The improvements you're describing and wanting come with major releases, not point releases. As someone coming from using FS on an AppleII GS, I can say with 100% certainty that for me P3D is IT and the future. No doubt about it.

Cheers,

Mark

[NorwegianAviator 60]

6 minutes ago, newtie said:

Funny how you mentioned this. I was just commenting to my self yesterday how far flight simulation has come and is going. KLAS  > KSFO at FL28 in my Lear 35 @ 472 knots indicated  through ASN weather being guided by a remarkable IVONA voice coming through Pilot2ATC. Everything right on the money.

The improvements you're describing and wanting come with major releases, not point releases. As someone coming from using FS on an AppleII GS, I can say with 100% certainty that for me P3D is IT and the future. No doubt about it.

Cheers,

Mark

If you compare this to other sims out there, I would say the progress is really slow. Problem with P3D right now is that it does not come with much improvements in major releases either. The current state of the sim is that it's full of old legacy bugs inherrited from FSX. I can name ground friction bug, rpm/MP bug (opposite of what is reality), lack of realistic helicopter flight dynamics, lack of realistic turboprop simulation and a lot more. We're talking big issues here, not smaller ones. I'm not expecting the sim to be perfect in this regard, but I do expect it to simulate things somewhat realistic, and at least not opposite reality. The current state of the issues named, are major flaws and has been on the platform for so many years now without any effort to fix them. We also obviously have other things related to graphics, scenery development etc. But in my opinion they should focus on fixing simulation flaws first, before anything else. I would love to be able to fly a helicopter or a turboprop with a certain level of realism. That is not the case today. I need to use other sims to be able to do that if I want a certain level of realism. All issues named here are quite easy to fix, but LM refuses to break backward compatibility with older addons, which is a real shame because it stops the sim from moving forward past a certain point.

Whether or not P3D is the future, remains to be seen. I certainly hope so, but then they really need to start bringing the platform forward at a higher rate than what we've seen the last couple of years.

[shivers9 1,174]

1 hour ago, JanReidar said:

I wonder how long we will have to wait for them to start improving the sim and fixing old legacy bugs from FSX, and not just fix simdirector bugs etc that none of us end users will benefit from at all. v4.2 came out mid february and gave us more or less nothing new, and now 4.3 in the end of june, still giving us nothing to write home about. That's about 4.5 months, and not very much has ever happened on the platform since the release of v4. Most improvements on the sim stopped around v3.2-v3.3. V2 gave us a lot of graphical improvements and was a very interesting version. Same thing with v3, up to around 3.2 or 3.3. V4 gave us 64bit and dynamic landinglights, plus improved vr support. But the list stops there. I don't want to sound negative, but I'm loosing faith in this sim more and more after each update as there is no real progress. I've been using P3D since v1.3 and I would love to continue to use it in the upcoming years, but right now I feel that the platform has come to a halt.

😳

I think you may be expecting too much too soon. If you are really that upset over things perhalps you should go back and cut and paste all the bug fixes and releases that have come out since LM started working on this program. Is it perfect....good lord no!. It will never be perfect for everyone. That is the nature of IT in these fast moving days. A couple of points....First remember that LM could do a lot of things probably today to improve our experience. Problem is that it will most likely break a ton of add ons and then this forum as well as others would explode with unhappy comments. The second thing is this. Don't let all the stuff about how good X-plain does this or some other sim blows up stuff. It is usually "the grass is greener on the other side" wishful thinking. I have seen a lot of folks get excited and come on line to proudly say they have gone over to x-plain but usually after a few weeks or months they are right back to P3D. There is some good reasons for that. We all want everything perfect but when I think back say...5 years I am amazed at what I can do today with P3d that I never imagined we would see.When you see point releases with items for simdirector then realize that we are just one part of a very big flight sim program. The commercial end has to continue to improved also other wise, we would be paying a whole lot more than P3D cost us now.

Edited July 3, 2018 by shivers9

[Greggy_D 935]

Honestly, I could happily use P3D4 with all of my current aircraft/sceneries for another 5-7 years.  Maybe even longer.

[NorwegianAviator 60]

17 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

I think you may be expecting too much too soon. If you are really that upset over things perhalps you should go back and cut and paste all the bug fixes and releases that have come out since LM started working on this program. Is it perfect....good lord no!. It will never be perfect for everyone. That is the nature of IT in these fast moving days. A couple of points....First remember that LM could do a lot of things probably today to improve our experience. Problem is that it will most likely break a ton of add ons and then this forum as well as others would explode with unhappy comments. The second thing is this. Don't let all the stuff about how good X-plain does this or some other sim blows up stuff. It is usually "the grass is greener on the other side" wishful thinking. I have seen a lot of folks get excited and come on line to proudly say they have gone over to x-plain but usually after a few weeks or months they are right back to P3D. There is some good reasons for that. We all want everything perfect but when I think back say...5 years I am amazed at what I can do today with P3d that I never imagined we would see.When you see point releases with items for simdirector then realize that we are just one part of a very big flight sim program. The commercial end has to continue to improved also other wise, we would be paying a whole lot more than P3D cost us now.

I understand what you're saying, but unfortunately I don't share that view. They might have improved quite a lot of bugs, no doubt. But the most important and significant legacy bugs from FSX are still present, and no effort has been made to fix this. Many things are actually simulated completely opposite of reality. The RPM/MP bug and also the famous leaning bug for piston engines, is simulated opposite reality in P3D. Having a correct simulation, even if it's not 100% accurate should not be too much to ask for in a flight simulator. Many people have pointed this out. At some point we HAVE TO break backward compatibility to move forward. Otherwise this platform will stop maturing and advance. I will completely leave out X-plane and DCS World in this discussion, since we're discussing P3D here. All I can say is that I use all these platforms, to different tasks.

You could also go back 5 years and compare what you can do in todays games or computer software. Or even Windows or iOS. That's called progress. Software is continuously developing and moving forward. The same thing should apply to P3D as well. Fixing those bugs mentioned should be pretty straight forward, and it should only take a small effort of time for developers to release a quick update on certain things to reflect the changes. I don't see how that should be a very big deal, unless they introduce a brand new flight dynamics engine. That being said, we have to get there too at some point.

[Nemo 1,305]

2 hours ago, JanReidar said:

I wonder how long we will have to wait for them to start improving the sim and fixing old legacy bugs from FSX, and not just fix simdirector bugs etc that none of us end users will benefit from at all. v4.2 came out mid february and gave us more or less nothing new, and now 4.3 in the end of june, still giving us nothing to write home about. That's about 4.5 months, and not very much has ever happened on the platform since the release of v4. Most improvements on the sim stopped around v3.2-v3.3. V2 gave us a lot of graphical improvements and was a very interesting version. Same thing with v3, up to around 3.2 or 3.3. V4 gave us 64bit and dynamic landinglights, plus improved vr support. But the list stops there. I don't want to sound negative, but I'm loosing faith in this sim more and more after each update as there is no real progress. I've been using P3D since v1.3 and I would love to continue to use it in the upcoming years, but right now I feel that the platform has come to a halt.

😳

The glass is half full my friends ... 😊

Edited July 3, 2018 by Nemo

[newtie 533]

1 hour ago, JanReidar said:

they really need to start bringing the platform forward at a higher rate than what we've seen the last couple of years.

Maybe they will. 😀

[nealmac 260]

5 hours ago, Nemo said:

Do not worry too much. I did a full uninstall/upgrade and it it took no longer than an extended evening to get 90% of my add-ons in place again.

When you have a slow internet connection it becomes a problem 😅

[shivers9 1,174]

1 hour ago, JanReidar said:

I don't see how that should be a very big deal, unless they introduce a brand new flight dynamics engine.

IMHO I believe that is exactly what is going to happen in V5. In the mean time you can bounce over here from X-plain all you want and take shots at LM. You are not the only person who has a mental list of things that would be nice to have. Your opinion has been noted by several on this board. Do have a good day.!! LOL

 

[Pete Dowson 558]

3 hours ago, JanReidar said:

I've been using P3D since v1.3 and I would love to continue to use it in the upcoming years, but right now I feel that the platform has come to a halt.

That's very negative. So you thought the FSX days were better? A very buggy version, a small update 6 months later, and a bigger one even later. Then nothing!

And gaps between major updates in the Flight Sim line were 2 years or more. I think 2 years is a more reasonable interval to expect for anything but minor improvements and fixes. And L-M don't have to release point updates as they do. It would probably be more efficient for them, and maybe please you more (?), if they issued nothing between P3D1 -- P3D2 -- P3D3 -- P3D4 and ... P3D5.  I think they are doing us proud with the incremental improvements, whether you appreciate them or not. I know I do, and I certainly see the results in my cockpit setup.

Pete

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, JanReidar said:

I will completely leave out X-plane and DCS World in this discussion, since we're discussing P3D here.

Should we thank you?  I would be more than happy to get into a Debate about XP11, DCS, AF2, P3D V4.x, FSW, but NOT here.  I would encourage you to get the best out of them rather than focusing on the negative.  You are not the first person and will not be the last person that has said things like this:

3 hours ago, JanReidar said:

Fixing those bugs mentioned should be pretty straight forward, and it should only take a small effort of time for developers to release a quick update on certain things to reflect the changes. I don't see how that should be a very big deal, unless they introduce a brand new flight dynamics engine. That being said, we have to get there too at some point.

You're obviously not a software engineer based on your comment and you clearly don't have access to the source code so how could you know what is and isn't "straight forward"?  Are you aware of the costs to produce games like COD MW2 or GTA V?  around $280,000,000 US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop).  For GTA V the development team was about 1000 persons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Grand_Theft_Auto_V).  GTA V development started around 2009 and took 4 years to complete.

So lets put that into perspective, how many people working for flight sims in LM, LR, Eagle Dynamics, iPacs?  If you combined all 4 of these companies they would be less than 100 people (a lot less).  I hope this helps you put some perspective into the world of flight simulation and it's development team size and relative cost investments in proportion to the rate of development.

Cheers, Rob.

[NorwegianAviator 60]

50 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

That's very negative. So you thought the FSX days were better? A very buggy version, a small update 6 months later, and a bigger one even later. Then nothing!

And gaps between major updates in the Flight Sim line were 2 years or more. I think 2 years is a more reasonable interval to expect for anything but minor improvements and fixes. And L-M don't have to release point updates as they do. It would probably be more efficient for them, and maybe please you more (?), if they issued nothing between P3D1 -- P3D2 -- P3D3 -- P3D4 and ... P3D5.  I think they are doing us proud with the incremental improvements, whether you appreciate them or not. I know I do, and I certainly see the results in my cockpit setup.

Pete

 

Back in those days when FSX was released it was quite good and also very ahead of it's time. Obviously you can't compare it to todays standards in computer games and software. Every update was quite significant. I still remember when I upgraden from fs9 to FSX. It was like day and night graphics wise. And the ground textures looked stunning compared to the low resolution fs9 textures. Many people bashed FSX back then. But now more than 10 years later, it's still very popular. What I really hope LM will do with P3D is to give priority to fixing bugs and errors in the simulation. It is after all a flight simulator, not a FPS game. And then, it would be nice to see some PBR and improved graphics and improvements on the terrain engine.

That being said, 99.9% of the people on this forum probably have no clue what kind of bugs I'm talking about 😅 My point is, when you have to buy 3. party addons to fix basic bugs in the core of the sim, and then having lots of people defending it, then something is not quite right. I'm not trying to bash P3D, I'm just a little bit frustrated at times with the way certain things in the simulator works. No offence on anyone...neigher LM 😊

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

Here's what I suggest. Buy both XP11 and DCS. Then you will be three times as frustrated, but at least it will be about different aspects of flight simulation.😉

[Swe_Richard 1,172]

8 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Here's what I suggest. Buy both XP11 and DCS. Then you will be three times as frustrated, but at least it will be about different aspects of flight simulation.😉

Ain't that the truth!