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AviatorMan

A2A Bonanza revisited

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This discussion frustrates me a bit. I have around 30 hours in a V Bonanza going back many years. For me, I'd use rudder and aileron as necessary - more wind more rudder, etc. As to sensitivity, on the one I flew, I basically just curled my fingers a bit and she lifted off as opposed to the Cessna 310 where I felt more pressure.

My frustration comes with trying to equate real life mechanical feel to the sim. I use CH yoke, rudders and TQ and the "feel" is no where near real life. I've tried every adjustment including disassembly and lubricating parts etc with high quality lubricants. I just think it is a difficult question to answer.

I'll let @busdriver who is current answer but I found the A2A Bonanza to be just as I remembered the real one. Only surprise was the AP - didn't have one in the bird I flew - which made cross country flying very interesting.

Vic


 

P3D#1 - 7700K 5.0g ROG X270F 3600 15-15-15 - EVGA RTX 2080ti 1000W PSU 1- 850G EVO SSD, 2-256G OCZ SSD, 1TB,HAF942-H100 Water W1064Pro
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I gave up on so called "yokes", just went back to my warthog. I could convince myself a stick was fine, but that yoke was soooo unbelievable in trying to pretend I was in a plane. 


i7 7700K @4.2, GTX 1060 6 Gig, Windows 10, P3D v 5, and MSFS 2020 and a couple of SSD's

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as scott from a2a says, the rw bonanza is heavy on the ailerons. so pull on the yoke requires some effort on takeoff. he further adds that on takeoff apart from applying appropriate right rudder pressure, one must pull the yoke back very gently at around 80 knots. i follow this procedure and find takeoffs to be smooth and trouble free.


Live today like there is no tomorrow

Ajay Balakrishnan

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Folks,

I don't own the A2A Bonanza software, so I can't compare it to the real world. If this is the same software as whats included in P3D, I can say that I don't find it to be an accurate representation of how my 1975 A36 flies.

It's almost show time, need to run. I'll post a few techniques later.

-B


Busdriver (Bill)

KPHL

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6 hours ago, busdriver said:

If this is the same software as whats included in P3D, I can say that I don't find it to be an accurate representation of how my 1975 A36 flies.

Hi Busdriver, not sure what you mean about the same software included in P3D, but the A2A V Bonanza is definitely not included as a default aircraft in P3D. 

Regards

 

 


My system specs: Intel i9-10850@3.6 - 5.2 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 10GB, 32GB  DDR4 3200MHz RAMNoctua NH-D15 Chromax Black CPU Cooler,1TB Seagate SSD, 4TB Seagate HD, Windows 10.                  Sims: P3Dv4.5 Professional and MSFS2020; Orbx Global and Vector, Orbx OpenLC Eu and NA, and most Orbx FTX regions in EU and NA. Preferred aircraft: PMDG DC-6, Manfred Jahn DC-3 and A2A Bonanza, Comanche and Cherokee

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23 minutes ago, AviatorMan said:

Hi Busdriver, not sure what you mean about the same software included in P3D, but the A2A V Bonanza is definitely not included as a default aircraft in P3D. 

Regards

 

 

I believe he's referring to the default A36 included in P3D.

Vic


 

P3D#1 - 7700K 5.0g ROG X270F 3600 15-15-15 - EVGA RTX 2080ti 1000W PSU 1- 850G EVO SSD, 2-256G OCZ SSD, 1TB,HAF942-H100 Water W1064Pro
40" 4K Monitor 3840x2160 - AS16, ASCA, GEP3D, UTX, Toposim, ORBX Regions, TrackIR
P3D#2 - 3770K 4.7g Asus Z77 1600 7-8-7 GTX1080ti DH14 850W 2-1TB WD HDD,1tb VRap, Armor+ W10 Pro 2 - HannsG 28" Monitors
 

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14 hours ago, busdriver said:

If this is the same software as whats included in P3D, I can say that I don't find it to be an accurate representation of how my 1975 A36 flies.

You want a better FDE for the default A36? Just PMd you.

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When I first started flying the A2A V35, I also had pitch issues and felt that with my yoke it was a just a bit too sensitive in roll as well.  I addressed the pitch issue by moving the A2A pitch adjustment control to around 60 - this control really does make a difference.  For roll I set a fairly heavy curve in FSUIPC to limit deflection near the center of the yoke and have worked on making smaller, more focused roll input.  With these two changes, I'm almost to the point where I feel I can hand fly close to test standards in most conditions.  A few more hours of practice and I think I'll get there.

As for the roll on takeoff issue, I've honestly never had the problem.  I wait till about 80 KTS (which is a bit faster than book) and apply very gentle back pressure.  Takeoff after takeoff, the plane flies itself off the runway with no unusual tendency to roll.  This is not a plane that will reward you for an aggressive rotation.

Someone else mentioned issues with pitch and the AP.  I also struggled with it at first until one of the A2A guys pointed out what should have been obvious to me, but wasn't.  When you turn on the AP, it captures and holds pitch angle, NOT rate of climb and NOT airspeed.  It does this even if you have not selected and armed an altitude setting.  If the AP is on, and you're not in altitude hold mode, it's locked to a pitch angle.  The key to success is to keep this in mind, and use the AP's pitch adjustment in concert with power settings to get a stable ROC or ROD.  Once you get the hang of it, it actually works very well.  You just need to understand what it does and doesn't do.  (Edit - the flight director bars can really help you see what the AP is trying to do)

As mentioned elsewhere, I think this is a plane which could really benefit from something like the Brunner yoke so that you could FEEL the plane.  Nevertheless and despite some early reservations, after some adjustments and a bit of a learning curve this has become my favorite GA plane, hands down.

Scott 

Edited by tttocs
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26 minutes ago, tttocs said:

Someone else mentioned issues with pitch and the AP.  I also struggled with it at first until one of the A2A guys pointed out what should have been obvious to me, but wasn't.  When you turn on the AP, it captures and holds pitch angle, NOT rate of climb and NOT airspeed.  It does this even if you have not selected and armed an altitude setting.  If the AP is on, and you're not in altitude hold mode, it's locked to a pitch angle.  The key to success is to keep this in mind, and use the AP's pitch adjustment in concert with power settings to get a stable ROC or ROD.  Once you get the hang of it, it actually works very well.  You just need to understand what it does and doesn't do.  (Edit - the flight director bars can really help you see what the AP is trying to do)

Not sure if this was added for me... if so, thanks.  I understand the AP Pitch Control doesn't target rate of climb but rather pitch angle.  My problem with the airplane is that no matter what pitch angle/power setting I use in any particular scenario, the airplane will not even come close to staying at that vertical speed solution... especially during descent.  We're talking +- 1500 FPM rollercoaster cycles!  The airplane even spun on me a couple nights ago while slowly climbing to the top of a rollercoaster cycle.  I've been advised to reinstall the airplane (I'll download the latest installer rather than use the original I have and then updating)... will do that this weekend and then test.

Despite the AP issues and my almost constant broken flaps, I really like this airplane.  I've been flying it almost exclusively since the day of release.  The one thing I clearly do not like about the Bonanza is that I'm unsure how much I'll be flying my Comanche now. 😀

Greg

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54 minutes ago, lownslo said:

Not sure if this was added for me... if so, thanks.  I understand the AP Pitch Control doesn't target rate of climb but rather pitch angle.  My problem with the airplane is that no matter what pitch angle/power setting I use in any particular scenario, the airplane will not even come close to staying at that vertical speed solution... especially during descent.  We're talking +- 1500 FPM rollercoaster cycles!  The airplane even spun on me a couple nights ago while slowly climbing to the top of a rollercoaster cycle.  I've been advised to reinstall the airplane (I'll download the latest installer rather than use the original I have and then updating)... will do that this weekend and then test.

Despite the AP issues and my almost constant broken flaps, I really like this airplane.  I've been flying it almost exclusively since the day of release.  The one thing I clearly do not like about the Bonanza is that I'm unsure how much I'll be flying my Comanche now. 😀

Greg

Hi Greg,

Do you have the "UP/DOWN" buttons mapped on your joystick ? If looking down in the VC to press them - I could see it would be hard to set right causing overshoot... I was flying numerous instrument procedures last weekend - the AP performed flawlessly - in both climbs - descents - and maintaining the GS (ILS/RNAV)... Best of luck...

Also on the "UP/DOWN" button - are you using single clicks sparingly and not holding the buttons in for any length of time ?

Regards,

Scott 

Edited by scottb613
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Hi Scott,

I do have them mapped to my flight controller but nothing makes a difference.  It's not so much overshooting a rocker switch setting... I can easily find a pitch/power combo that works for me in any given situation.  But the AP won't hold anything close to that setting... it just starts wandering in it's rollercoaster routine.  Also, I have pitch trim mapped to a rotary, and I can manually track a climb/descent far better using my trim rotary than my Bonanza AP can.  Like you, I've not had any problems with the AP following instrument procedures... it's rock solid!  The challenge for me is just getting the airplane to the IAF altitude without becoming airsick! 😁

I'll reinstall this weekend and try again.  In the meantime, anybody interested in some slightly damaged flaps?  Got a few of them, and the price is cheap... running out of room in my hangar to stash them!!

Greg

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Greg,

 

Not sure if this will help or not and I am certainly not looking to patronize you but I had experienced something similar to what you are describing when first working with this plane.

What I had done was had used the ALT ARM feature to set a specific altitude on my initial climb and used the AP trim to adjust my rate of climb until the altitude was captured and the AP engaged the ALT mode at that altitude and held it there just fine.

After navigating to my approach I then dialed in a new altitude and used the AP pitch down to adjust my rate of descent.  The result was the AP was fighting me and would pitch down while I held the AP trim down button then when I released it would pitch up very aggressively and turn into a roller coaster.  I actually had a couple flights like this until I realized my mistake

The error on my part was after dialing in the new altitude I didn't press the ALT ARM button next to the dial.  So the AP was still trying to maintain the original altitude instead of the approach altitude I was really wanting.  So no matter how bad a I wanted to descend the AP was doing everything it could to return me back to the original altitude.  Basically the AP was still in ALT hold mode.

Hope this helps

 

Kind Regards,

 

Brett 

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Thanks Brett, but I understand that the ALT ARM must be used each time the desired altitude is changed.  Think of this problem more along the lines of a nasty, trouble making gremlin who hangs out near the AP and incessantly beats the UP/DOWN rocker.  Very frustrating! 

I had time today to completely remove and clean the Bonanza from my system, then reinstall the latest version.  My test flight was about 90 minutes with a destination of ORBX's KEKA, which was 2 miles and 500 ft as I neared the airport.  During the flight I of course set a climb (about 500 fpm), and the AP did a great job!  Indeed I was able to tweak climb rate not just with the AP pitch rocker, but also with power (much finer and only small changes in the climb rate).  The AP climbed right to my set altitude and held it there... until I commanded it to a lower altitude.  It again worked perfectly!  Using the GTN I shot the GPS RNAV approach into 12, and again it all worked as it should. 

Still more testing to do (aw shucks, I have to fly the Bonanza some more 😁 ), but seems perhaps this was indeed a duff install.  My first time with this sort of failure.  I'll post back if the problem isn't resolved, but I hope it is.  Such a great airplane, and I hate seeing it hobbled with a goofy AP from a bad install.  Now if only I could have been lucky enough to get a twofer and my broken flap issue went away with the crazy AP from the first install.

Thanks all,

Greg

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