9 minutes ago, ShezA said:

Except that it is not a flawed product

Well, no, it is a flawed product, but the flaws aren't fatal and there's no indication that they won't be fixed. $70 is a lot of money for a pretend airplane, and it'll be good when it works as advertised.

I don't agree that people who don't own the product can't express an opinion on it --- I don't own a Yugo, but feel pretty comfortable saying they suck. 😉  But the opinion should at least be informed. I fly PMDG and Leonardo planes too, and the QW isn't bad, especially since it's a good deal less expensive.

The bottom line is that QW blows bad addons like jets from Carenado out of the water. I kinda like that there's a middle ground between "so broken it's unpleasant to fly" and "works perfectly and costs a car payment," but for that middle ground to remain, we have to stop expecting offerings like the 787 to be at a PMDG level of perfection.

19 hours ago, pracines said:

I agree that some have certain "singular" talents, but I'm not talking about a texture artist actually fixing the problem, I'm talking about sharing ideas to help. For example, a texture artist eventually runs into problems that perhaps a systems programmer could "relate" a systems programming problem to and the systems programmer could help with an analogy of sorts.

There's some limited value in that, but it's a lot less than you think and won't affect the order of outputs.

People have mentioned it before, but I'll repeat it since it is my world. Shifting people around only makes sense in an environment with little specialization or a tremendous amount of cross-training. I don't see CRM as a valid analogy; in a cockpit you have two individuals with a skills overlap exceeding 99%. Stocking shelves or child housework is fungible, unskilled labor.

I agree that the example above can help. I see it with my teams as well, but it's limited to a few minutes to (tops) an hour to re-examine a problem and decide on a course of action. The work from there still needs to be done, and that takes a lot longer - and that's not an area where a texture or sound artist can help with programming an FMC module.

Cheers!

 

22 minutes ago, ErichB said:

I flew it once and packed it away.  As it has been pointed out there were issues with holding a VNAV profile and I had issues with it overshooting the TOC point and then subsequent parabola behavior after.  If you are saying this now fixed then that's cool and I'd be happy to try it out again.

Importing winds aloft data - is this possible?

Yes. I have seen it only in the PMDG 777 via the simbrief download.

13 minutes ago, ShezA said:

 

Yes. I have seen it only in the PMDG 777 via the simbrief download.

It works on the PMDG 777 and 747 via simbrief - is it possible on the QW787?  If not in simbrief, is it possible via PFPX?

 

1 hour ago, Luke said:

There's some limited value in that, but it's a lot less than you think and won't affect the order of outputs.

People have mentioned it before, but I'll repeat it since it is my world. Shifting people around only makes sense in an environment with little specialization or a tremendous amount of cross-training. I don't see CRM as a valid analogy; in a cockpit you have two individuals with a skills overlap exceeding 99%. Stocking shelves or child housework is fungible, unskilled labor.

I agree that the example above can help. I see it with my teams as well, but it's limited to a few minutes to (tops) an hour to re-examine a problem and decide on a course of action. The work from there still needs to be done, and that takes a lot longer - and that's not an area where a texture or sound artist can help with programming an FMC module.

Cheers!

I thank you for your response and understanding.🙂

My main point is the time involved (decades old problem). Whoever is doing the a/p systems programming, needs some help, any kind of help. I would suggest replacing the individual if it were my place to do so, but at the very least, get some other brains (with a fresh/new approach) in on the situation, then maybe the programmer can finally get it right.

Concerning CRM, skills are not really the main issue, its experience and the pride that can come with it that is mostly in play, and gets reduced. Co-pilots need not be afraid to speak up any more and captains welcome this under CRM. 

A humble common sense idea from a child or a custodian can be very helpful even to a head of state, one never knows. Age or occupation does not necessarily indicate intelligence. I personally know a dishwasher at a restaurant (I have been going to for many years) that does very complex math quite fast in his head and is never wrong - I tested him myself with a calculator handy when I did not believe it at first. He chooses to have a simple uncomplicated life. I also personally know district attorneys, doctors, and business owners who are quite foolish and stupid, they have nothing on the dishwasher I know. 

1 hour ago, pracines said:

Concerning CRM, skills are not really the main issue, its experience and the pride that can come with it that is mostly in play, and gets reduced. Co-pilots need not be afraid to speak up any more and captains welcome this under CRM.  

Not true at all. For the co-pilot to speak up and have the input be valuable, the co-pilot needs to have the right flying skills. There's a reason no one ever asks for some random guy in coach to come up to the cockpit and tell the pilot how to handle a problem.

CRM is not "every opinion matters and should be eagerly spoken and enthusiastically acknowledged."

You keep talking about how a kid can tell a head of state how to do his job, but the problem with your thinking is that in some subjects, the kid has a fair shot at knowing just as much about it as the politician, because politicians can't be experts on everything they encounter.

In this specific issue, everyone knows what the problem is. VNAV doesn't work properly. Everyone also knows the solution; Make VNAV work properly.

Beyond that, random suggestions as to how to fix the code from people who do not know anything about coding are not going to help. At all. All this idea would do is make the programmer have to come out of his office and go into a conference room to sit there and be yakked at by a bunch of people who have no clue what they're talking about while he suppresses eye-rolls and wishes he were somewhere else. And that means the VNAV fix will take even longer.

 

54 minutes ago, eslader said:

Not true at all. For the co-pilot to speak up and have the input be valuable, the co-pilot needs to have the right flying skills. There's a reason no one ever asks for some random guy in coach to come up to the cockpit and tell the pilot how to handle a problem.

CRM is not "every opinion matters and should be eagerly spoken and enthusiastically acknowledged."

You keep talking about how a kid can tell a head of state how to do his job, but the problem with your thinking is that in some subjects, the kid has a fair shot at knowing just as much about it as the politician, because politicians can't be experts on everything they encounter.

In this specific issue, everyone knows what the problem is. VNAV doesn't work properly. Everyone also knows the solution; Make VNAV work properly.

Beyond that, random suggestions as to how to fix the code from people who do not know anything about coding are not going to help. At all. All this idea would do is make the programmer have to come out of his office and go into a conference room to sit there and be yakked at by a bunch of people who have no clue what they're talking about while he suppresses eye-rolls and wishes he were somewhere else. And that means the VNAV fix will take even longer.

 

So you are saying that an airline would hire a private pilot without even a multi engine and instrument rating? (skills) Co-pilots know how to fly the plane in question before they get in the right seat. CRM was implemented because of problems not getting solved that easily could have been - 'uh captain we are very low on fuel, we need to land NOW... if you don't I WILL' ….just like this QW 787 A/P can be solved...somebody do something now!

Since you conclude that everybody knows what the problem is and what the solution is, then you need to suggest that a new A/P systems programmer is hired by QW. What else is there to suggest?

I don't claim to have all the answers or all the facts, I'm just saying this has gone on for way too long and has been tolerated by the community again for way too long.

Now if this upcoming update totally fixes the A/P systems to function as claimed by QW, then all is well - it took too long, but at least its done. In other words I'm not here to harm QW, I'm here to get a fully functioning (per the QW feature list) 787 for the P3D community. 

This is becoming more entertaining by the minute..🤣

4 hours ago, ErichB said:

It works on the PMDG 777 and 747 via simbrief - is it possible on the QW787?  If not in simbrief, is it possible via PFPX?

 

That is my ask actually. All I see are blanks. 🤨 I don't use PFPX.

35 minutes ago, pracines said:

So you are saying that an airline would hire a private pilot without even a multi engine and instrument rating? (skills)

Nothing seems to be getting through to you. Maybe this will help, but if not, I give up:

 

Yes, an airline would hire a private pilot without even a multi-engine and instrument rating as a graphic designer if the private pilot were qualified to be a graphic designer. Kind of like how QW might hire a texture artist who doesn't know how to program computers because programming computers is not what texture artists do.

The airline would not, contrary to what you seem to think would be appropriate, expect the graphic designer with a private pilot license to go up to the cockpit to help the crew figure out how to fly the plane, because that would be asinine -- just as absurd as expecting a texture artist to be, by default, sufficiently well-versed in programming to tell the programmer how to do his job.

 

23 minutes ago, eslader said:

Nothing seems to be getting through to you. Maybe this will help, but if not, I give up:

 

Yes, an airline would hire a private pilot without even a multi-engine and instrument rating as a graphic designer if the private pilot were qualified to be a graphic designer. Kind of like how QW might hire a texture artist who doesn't know how to program computers because programming computers is not what texture artists do.

The airline would not, contrary to what you seem to think would be appropriate, expect the graphic designer with a private pilot license to go up to the cockpit to help the crew figure out how to fly the plane, because that would be asinine -- just as absurd as expecting a texture artist to be, by default, sufficiently well-versed in programming to tell the programmer how to do his job.

 

This is getting tiresome gentlemen, time to calling it a day 😉

when I tried to fly stoned, I couldn't even find the 787, let alone VNAV & LNAV...

Edited February 25, 20197 yr by jpf

1 hour ago, jpf said:

when I tried to fly stoned, I couldn't even find the 787, let alone VNAV & LNAV...

🤣😱

The moral of that story is... Don't fly stoned...😉

9 hours ago, eslader said:

........we have to stop expecting offerings like the 787 to be at a PMDG level of perfection.

Well sorry but this is kinda what I would like to have for the 787 - unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case at present.

Bruceb

1 hour ago, brucewtb said:

Well sorry but this is kinda what I would like to have for the 787 - unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case at present.

Bruceb

Feel free to lobby PMDG for a 787 Bruce, and good luck with that..