The audience is wide and even though this is a Ray thread, it's not just a Ray thread. So really, disinterest by an individual is interesting but irrelevant to the theory behind the sale. The sale is to all-comers so some individuals may not see it in their best interest. I think good luck to them, it shouldn't need to take guts to charge for the thing.

15 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

...Provided you had bought one of the three earlier versions at full price you qualified for the discount. I did so qualified for the price of 25GBP. I'm not sure of the relevance to this discussion. I use AS16 for the entire flight and every flight. Unlike an airport...

It's completely relevant, we're talking about an upgrade fee between sim versions, exactly what you you've complained about. How much you use it doesn't reflect on the price, it's the costs of production. £25 is an expensive upgrade given that an outright purchase of AS16-FSX or ASP4 is about £32 and Hifi have 30% sales fairly often.

11 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

It's completely relevant, we're talking about an upgrade fee between sim versions, exactly what you you've complained about. How much you use it doesn't reflect on the price, it's the costs of production. £25 is an expensive upgrade given that an outright purchase of AS16-FSX or ASP4 is about £32 and Hifi have 30% sales fairly often.

I do see Ray's point.  Paying an upgrade fee is alot harder to stomach if you use it once in a blue moon compared to one you will be using on every flight you make.  That's where the individual needs to do his own cost-benefit analysis. 

What I do not agree with,  is pointing out developers who implement modest pricing policies for upgrades as though they have done something wrong.

 

Edited April 8, 20197 yr by ErichB

And yet when you buy a car, you pay the full price of the car regardless of how often you get to drive it.

S.

13 minutes ago, simbol said:

And yet when you buy a car, you pay the full price of the car regardless of how often you get to drive it.

S.

+

if that car is now delivered with a special set of wheels for free that your doesn’t have and you want them too you will have to pay for that ...

Ok off to buy the upgrade 😲

The moral of this is don't buy airport anymore until V5 is released or you will be paying again, I would like ATHENS FT are said to be working on it but I'm not buy a product at full price and pay again for an upgrade, the good news is I'm spending less now on addons.  

PS and with PayPal stopping at SimMarket I will not be buy anymore as they do not sell direct.

Edited April 8, 20197 yr by rjfry

3 hours ago, ckyliu said:

I think you'll find PMDG charge over 100%, as do FSL, to existing owners of FSX products being ported to P3D (which is essentially what we're talking about here, P3Dv4 features being added to what at it's core is an FSX product).

Wrong

FSL gave everyone 6 months to upgrade to P3D free of charge.

PMDG also made a lot of people angry with not doing the same.

Edited April 8, 20197 yr by Nyxx

1 hour ago, GSalden said:

A while ago I asked Justsim about those costs for improved releases :

Simmarket bills the developer € 5 for each sale when a new installer has to be made ( by Simmarket )

Some developers avoid those costs by adding manual updates instead of the complete product or accept those costs. But those are developers that do not update their product that much...

So better know the other site too instead of judging without Knowing ....

I think that this is the most important point to take away from this thread. For the sake of 'convenience', consumers pay more due to the ease of having 'unlimited downloads all in one place'. Developers receive less because of the convenience of having their products hosted and the transactional side taken care of.

Some developers may need a reseller because they can't cope with the complexity of selling. However, those developers big enough to sell through their own sites will get more of my custom, because as they receive more of my money, they are sometimes cheaper, usually quicker to market, and are often better at giving support than developers reliant on 3rd party resellers.

Until that's acknowledged by the majority of simmers, we can expect minor updates charges and other costs to be passed on to us.

14 minutes ago, F737NG said:

Some developers may need a reseller because they can't cope with the complexity of selling. However, those developers big enough to sell through their own sites will get more of my custom, because as they receive more of my money, they are sometimes cheaper, usually quicker to market, and are often better at giving support than developers reliant on 3rd party resellers.

Not the entire story. For example: I've agreed to sell my products through Flight 1 to support them, they came to me for that reason. And I provide technical input. I'm kitted out to take funds myself, it's not too hard and often off-the-shelf software does a good job if you have a business account.

Edited April 8, 20197 yr by SteveW

2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

PBR is not a big selling point for me. I liked the look of good quality airports and aircraft before PBR textures appeared, so it is not something that I simply must have. Yes, it is another step forward as far as realism is concerned, but it is not essential in my book. Give me a detailed non PBR version of EINN Shannon than any number of shiny PBR texture enabled versions of almost every other airport in the world!!

 

Same. PBR just seems a silly gimmick to appease gamers. I prefer to use the platforms as a simulation. Kinda what it was designed for. Leave the ‘eye candy’ gimmicks for the kids on gaming platforms. 

Waste of time, resources and now everybody will charge more for the pointless thing. 

3 minutes ago, Raging Bull said:

Same. PBR just seems a silly gimmick to appease gamers. I prefer to use the platforms as a simulation. Kinda what it was designed for. Leave the ‘eye candy’ gimmicks for the kids on gaming platforms. 

Waste of time, resources and now everybody will charge more for the pointless thing.

And yet if Lockheed Martin does not introduce these changes, we get everyone complaining that the platform doesn't move forward and they will move on to another simulator..

Are we not hard to please? 

Simbol

2 hours ago, GSalden said:

A while ago I asked Justsim about those costs for improved releases :

Simmarket bills the developer € 5 for each sale when a new installer has to be made ( by Simmarket )

Some developers avoid those costs by adding manual updates instead of the complete product or accept those costs. But those are developers that do not update their product that much...

So better know the other site too instead of judging without Knowing ....

I’m surprised they divulged such information as I thought it would be commercially sensitive.

Presumably a new installer had to be written for the PBR release which means the developer gets 1-2 Euros per sale and SimMarket gets around 4-5 Euros. How does the developer claw back his development costs?

1 hour ago, ErichB said:

What I do not agree with,  is pointing out developers who implement modest pricing policies for upgrades as though they have done something wrong.

But from Greg’s post it sounds as though SimMarket are pocketing the bulk of the charge and little is going to the developer. How is that sustainable?

18 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

But from Greg’s post it sounds as though SimMarket are pocketing the bulk of the charge and little is going to the developer. How is that sustainable?

Which makes the thread moot

Edited April 8, 20197 yr by ErichB