11 minutes ago, simmerhead said:

Depends... Software that limits how and when it can be used is a waste in my book.

Of course it depends on lots of things you are right. Some things you just got to have them all. 😀

 

but I don't expect to use FS addons forever. Actually I think I've been buying them for years now, even though I've secretly hoped MS pop up with a new sim the day after.

3 hours ago, SteveW said:

Of course it depends on lots of things you are right. Some things you just got to have them all. 😀

but I don't expect to use FS addons forever. Actually I think I've been buying them for years now, even though I've secretly hoped MS pop up with a new sim the day after.

I do expect to use them forever (at least in theory) :) 

I would be OK with DRM if it for instance had a built in timer so that it became abandonware/freeware after a certain period of time, but the prospect of it stopping to function because some server somewhere has been turned off freaks me out. To me a computer game never goes out of date.

I love old games for MS-DOS and the Amiga 500, and still play many of them today. While they can't compete in terms of modern graphics and complexity, they are quick to learn, fun and with great playability. And I love the boxes, printed manuals, maps and charts that were included. With the internet everything grows old quick and anything stored in a cloud just has less value in my opinion. 

But than again, there's no photogrammetry in MS-DOS games, so one has to move with the times and just adapt to the pros and cons.

Edited June 28, 20196 yr by simmerhead

I couldn't agree more.

Edited June 28, 20196 yr by SteveW

3 hours ago, SteveW said:

but I don't expect to use FS addons forever. Actually I think I've been buying them for years now, even though I've secretly hoped MS pop up with a new sim the day after.

I tend to agree with Simmerhead as I bought into Flight including all of the DLC available at that time in order to support that platform (and see it once to include something like PMDG'ish heavy iron). Didn't work quite out as we all know by now. Still have Flight on my HDD, though, but rarely use it, not only because I am (was) in one of my flightsim recessions with limited time and interest to fly but also because of the annoying workaround to use Flight without the servers which MS killed (thankful though for the workaround by the former Aces guy anyway). With the new sim I am getting hooked already and believe that I am ready to get out of my recession period by next year if MS gets it right this time to allow 3rd party devs to contribute while still letting them room (and money) to breath (in case MS should decide upon a marketplace approach).

Edit: just realized that I am in a rather long flightsim recession this time, my last activity here at Avsim dates back to September 2013, gosh! 

Edited June 28, 20196 yr by DAD

3 minutes ago, DAD said:

I tend to agree with Simmerhead as I bought into Flight including all of the DLC available at that time in order to support that platform (and see it once to include something like PMDG'ish heavy iron). Didn't work quite out as we all know by now. Still have Flight on my HDD, though, but rarely use it, not only because I am (was) in one of my flightsim recessions with limited time and interest to fly but also because of the annoying workaround to use Flight without the servers which MS killed (thankful though for the workaround by the former Aces guy anyway). With the new sim I am getting hooked already and believe that I am ready to get out of my recession period by next year if MS gets it right this time to allow 3rd party devs to contribute while still letting them room (and money) to breath (in case MS should decide upon a marketplace approach).

So do I, but I was referring to having had a satisfying simulator setup going on, then it's just food or fuel for the journey as I said. But yes disappointments aside, they come along from time to time and I've felt short changed myself on occasion no doubt about it.

On 6/27/2019 at 9:02 AM, JNS said:

I'm feeling the urgency to "stock up" on the latest versions of both sims (and AF FS2) with all the add-ons available just in case doomsday strikes and they are forced out of business and then MS drops the news that MFS2020 will be no longer.

Highly unlikely that LM will be forced out of business even if MSFS is a huge success. Their primary corporate and military P3D customers will ensure that development continues. Plus, why would they stop selling the academic version? Even if no one buys it, it's not losing them money by having it still available. The only danger may be that the development of NEW add-ons dries up.

20 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

The weather depiction in FS2020 was VERY good, the SFO fog bank was perfect ... if that is TrueSky then Microsoft implemented it MUCH better than DTG.

DTG always said that the implementation of trueSKY into FSW was in a very early state and would need a lot of tuning to get it where they wanted it. That said, after they corrected the rapidly morphing clouds, it was showing real potential. For recent examples, see: https://youtu.be/4fdgUH3eXak and https://youtu.be/cc6I7-yh8nc - rains shafts, light shafts, shadows within clouds etc.

18 hours ago, eslader said:

Now, maybe we could hogtie some of the Windows devs and beat them until they get a clue and ask them very nicely to make Windows more capable of automatically fetching the correct driver.

I really hope not! Not all drivers work well with the various iterations of the hardware they're designed for. You only need to look at the NVIDIA forums to see the problems different versions of drivers can cause with different hardware - there's no such thing as a standard PC. Even here on Avsim, there are plenty of people who go back to older drivers because they get better performance from them. The only time you truly need the newest driver is if it offers an essential feature which is not available in an earlier version.

Edited June 28, 20196 yr by vortex681

Imho nothing beats PR scenery + custom objects . I welcome the day that I do not have to put all PR scenery on my pc’s..

Edited June 28, 20196 yr by GSalden

18 hours ago, Mengy said:

Fear of change can be a powerful thing.  I'm sure some people who have a financial interest in the status quo feel negatively about the coming FS2020, but some people who have lots of money invested in the current sims are likely just mad about having to start over again.  Certainly many people will stay with their current sim and totally snub FS2020 for that reason alone.

Personally I'm ready and willing to completely start anew, as long as the positives outweigh the negatives.  And from what we've seen and read so far the positives look absolutely outstanding.

 In the past (last time fs9>FSX), I gave up favorite aircraft and sceneries without any qualm.They were few.  

But the state of things has dramatically changed over the past 10 years, most of us have now a large stock of addons which we have successfully transported and increased, year after year, from FSX to P3d3 v2, v3 and v4. 

Its not only a question of money. It is also that we've built up a flying environnment that we like, for me with plenty of OrbX, A2A, Milviz, Sibwings, RealAir, Active Sky etc. 

I like changes (FS2020 would be 15th sim I guess  )but change for the sake of  change ?

I am an agnostic. I wait to see before giving up what I've, this time.

 

 

Edited June 28, 20196 yr by domkle

2 minutes ago, GSalden said:

 

It looks great, if a little "soft", from that height (or higher) but, like most photoreal scenery, it will almost certainly look much worse (and generally, flat) when you get down to about 500ft. Casual and GA users will want something which looks good at low level. Fingers crossed for MSFS.

Just now, vortex681 said:

It looks great, if a little "soft", from that height (or higher) but, like most photoreal scenery, it will almost certainly look much worse (and generally, flat) when you get down to about 500ft. Casual and GA users will want something which looks good at low level. Fingers crossed for MSFS.

It looks razor sharp at 500 ft . It has been recorded by a cellphone.. 😎

Every display is 4K

6 minutes ago, domkle said:

 It is also that we've built up a flying environnment that we like, for me with plenty of OrbX, A2A, Milviz, Sibwings, RealAir, Active Sky etc.

But only because we needed them to overcome the basic nature of the default sim. It may be that we won't need scenery and weather add-ons in the new sim.

1 minute ago, GSalden said:

It looks razor sharp at 500 ft . It has been recorded by a cellphone.

Do you have an example?

3 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

It may be that we won't need scenery and weather add-ons in the new sim.

I wouldn't hold my breath.  I would venture to say that if MS finds a way to create decent scenery, there will be those that will not be satisfied no matter what and that goes for weather too.

6 minutes ago, SmokeDiddy said:

I would venture to say that if MS finds a way to create decent scenery, there will be those that will not be satisfied no matter what and that goes for weather too.

But hasn't that always been the case? No matter how good things get, some people always want them to be better. From the very limited amount that we've seen in the trailer, the scenery already looks at least as good, if not better, than the best 3rd party scenery currently available. The weather looks much better! Remember that there's still a lot more development and refinement to be done before it hits the streets. 

Edited June 28, 20196 yr by vortex681

11 hours ago, pracines said:

This is called "passion", and its this level of passion that sets flight simmers apart. Without this passion, Avsim would be a boring and likely useless website. Can you imagine if all flight simmers said "its just a sim"? Would they buy power PC's and thousands of dollars in add-ons? Flight simming would last as long as MS Flight did....there would never have been an MSFS version 2 because MSFS version 1 would suffice, "its just a sim". Nearly 40 years strong, flight simming could not continue to exist without widespread passion.  

The fundamental main thing I wish we would all remember or understand, is that we should be all on the same page headed toward "as real as it gets". Realism is the key, and to fight against realism, is to invite or wish for the death of homebased flight simming.

 

Passion? I admire passion, but when that passion leads to some of the invective we have seen on AVSIM, you have now moved toward obsession, and not a healthy one either.

41 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

But only because we needed them to overcome the basic nature of the default sim. It may be that we won't need scenery and weather add-ons in the new sim.

 

My point is that we don't "fear" changes or losing an "investment" (a strange word for game addons BTW).  It is a little reductive. We don't know what is beyond the trailer hype.

FSX brought a 38m mesh which was a big improvement over FS9 but the market soon brought us  much better 19m and 10m meshes. If FS2020 brings us the state of the art in terms of mesh all over the world and not only for a few landmarks I am all for it. If not, I won't give up what I've. I love mountain flying, so mesh is important for me.

 LC  : they were no improvement in FSX over FS9 in most of the world as I recall. The market brought us huge brillant LC maps  As I don't think that FS2020 will bring me imagery for all over the world. I want to see at least what I have now where there is no sat/aerial imagery and not some kind of Megascenery or the FSX LC maps.

Let's take Japan. There is a LC map freeware of great quality, With Global and Vector I do have a pretty good environment. I'll look at what FS2020 will offer me there.  

- Aircraft ?  Default aircraft have improved over the years. They may ne better this time but upto A2A/PMDG level ? We'll see.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 20196 yr by domkle