The non-acceptance comfort and support thread

[HiFlyer 9,359]

5 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Oh, so you mean just like it is now with P3D and XP11? 

How about blue papers ... kinda fits the BSOD theme, white papers seems a bit racist.  Silly me, I made the assumption people actually wanted to help ... let the crazy continue ... just fix it! 🙂

Cheers, Rob.

See, the thing is, back in my more naive days, and coming from the corporate world, I assumed the beta testing process would be a lot more formal, with established ticketing processes, delineation of responsibilities and excetera .

For some companies, that indeed seems to be the case.

For most however, it seems to be a very informal and chaotic process, with very earnest and enthusiastic beta testers who do indeed want to help, submitting problem reports and being told it's all being worked on, only to find that the product suddenly ships due to financial and time constraints, with many bugs intact.

Purchasers then ask where the heck the beta testers were, and said testers sigh and bury their heads in their hands. LOL!

Experience has made me a bit more cynical or realistic in my expectations, I'm not sure which word is more appropriate.

So now, I make sure that at least the thing being tested is exciting and fun enough to keep me interested, with the chance I will actually be able to make a contribution as something to be hoped for, but maybe not as much a given, as I once believed.

[simtom 495]

17 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

You folks do realize it's "work" right?? 

I completely agree with your statement, I feel like nowadays alphas and betas are used as promotional material (even more so the "open" betas), similar like how many early access games there are right now. The majority of the users sees it as a way to play the game way early, before anyone else. Sadly this also means that they might not get the feedback they're looking for. Even in this case, I think they just want as many people "on board" to create excitement in the community (not that it isn't there already), just look at how they want more and more people to join the alpha asap. For some, this alpha might even be a let down because of the bugs that might be present, or that their house isn't that detailed or etc. 

[Nedo68 533]

37 minutes ago, simtom said:

... Sadly this also means that they might not get the feedback they're looking for.

lol they know that already before, if you invite 1000 anonymous guests you can't expect everyone to fit perfectly. 😂

they know some will just enjoy to fly, "So sit back, relax, and enjoy your upcoming flight!" 😁

[simtom 495]

Just now, Nedo68 said:

lol they know that already before, if you invite 1000 anonymous guests you can't expect everyone to fit perfectly. 😂

they know some will just enjoy to fly, "So sit back, relax, and enjoy your upcoming flight!" 😁

Oh yes, they sure do know that! 😃

And I must confess, if I get invited I would be flying around for 90% of my time and finding bugs the other 10% haha.

[DylanM 1,069]

Their loss...I'm expertly qualified to break even the most "fixed" things. Texture_Max_Load here, TextureMaxLoad there et voila...😁 

[redgar 2]

Please don't read too much into the hardware of those that were selected. It is likely that those specs just closely match the hardware the developers are using every day. You don't want to test wide varieties of PC hardware in Alpha 1. "We know it runs on these specs acceptably, so give me 100 people that have this".. Not more, not less.

In Alpha testing you are testing functionality on the (mostly) completed features. At work we even call it FUN testing, short for FUNctual. Once you get to User Acceptance (aka BETA) testing is where you want to optimize performance and cast a wider net with the specs.

 

 

[simbol 5,819]

I don't get why you all get sad. As a developer I want and need access to the Alpha because it gives me the opportunity to understand and plan well ahead anything I could do for this simulator when the SDK becomes available.

But as an User I would rather wait to enjoy the final product instead on seeing it on its skeletal form. Seeing a product in Alpha stage can be disappointing, expose you to lots of problems / bugs and make you feel frustrated.

This is something I warned to all my beta testers when they were signed to test my products.. and that was for Beta access not Alpha. Alpha to production is quite a jump, and things can change dramatically.

Just sit, relax you will enjoy the product on its finished form and avoid lots of work.

Regarding all the guys that were accepted, please remember your responsibility with Microsoft and the rest of the community. Your mission is try to break the product as much as possible, report issues, report data and help everyone to enjoy the final product when it is released. You were not accepted to enjoy it earlier than others, you were accepted to help others enjoy it when the final product is finished.

If this is something you don't wish to do, or you think differently, just quit now and give the opportunity to somebody else that understand what MS and the rest of the community requires and need.

My 2 cents.

Regards,

Simbol 

[Baber20 1,438]

4 hours ago, simbol said:

I don't get why you all get sad. As a developer I want and need access to the Alpha because it gives me the opportunity to understand and plan well ahead anything I could do for this simulator when the SDK becomes available. 

 

So well put. And yes I admit I was a bit upset on not being selected but now when I come to think of it, I wouldn't want my image of that perfect sim shattered just now because as you mentioned this is the alpha version and will have quite a lot of bugs and performance issues and will be far from an enjoyable experience. I mean I will gladly take that invite with open hands but not going to sweat over it now.

Edited October 27, 2019 by 188AHC
Pruned ridiculously long quote,

[b737800 470]

52 minutes ago, simbol said:

I don't get why you all get sad. As a developer I want and need access to the Alpha because it gives me the opportunity to understand and plan well ahead anything I could do for this simulator when the SDK becomes available.

I too am a developer. I've been using SimConnect etc for years, although mostly for my own personal projects. I started my first potential FS related commercial project for P3D a few months ago and then immediately put it on hold after MS made the announcements.

In other words... we're not all just wanting to fly planes before others.

[simbol 5,819]

4 minutes ago, b737800 said:

I too am a developer. I've been using SimConnect etc for years, although mostly for my own personal projects. I started my first potential FS related commercial project for P3D a few months ago and then immediately put it on hold after MS made the announcements.

In other words... we're not all just wanting to fly planes before others.

Why you need to get so personal? Geez take a chill pill. Clearly you feel frustrated that as a developer you can't get an insight of what is going on.

Let me tell you something, despite of what people believe, all developers are on the same page and situation as you (including me, not on Alpha tech invite either).. The only thing we can do is wait.. So you shouldn't put your products on hold. It will take a while before we can develop for this sim and even longer before it is out and mature. It is just about to get to Alpha stage.

S.

[b737800 470]

1 minute ago, simbol said:

Why you need to get so personal? Geez take a chill pill. Clearly you feel frustrated that as a developer you can't get an insight of what is going on.

Let me tell you something, despite of what people believe, all developers are on the same page and situation as you (including me, not on Alpha tech invite either).. The only thing we can do is wait.. So you shouldn't put your products on hold. It will take a while before we can develop for this sim and even longer before it is out and mature. It is just about to get to Alpha stage.

S.

Nothing personal meant or inferred by it at all. Just stating where I am and that there are others in the same boat as you.

In terms of putting things on hold, I'm at the stage where I'm starting to work on flight dynamics and flight management. I'm not out of work by not being able to proceed, but without knowing what the new sim will offer directly I don't think it is smart to continue right now when there is a good chance that much of the code would need to be totally reworked or not be needed at all.

Happy to jump on a quick Skype call with you now to show exactly what I mean. I'm about as chilled out as it gets.

Peace...

[HiFlyer 9,359]

Honestly, I think it's best to let Microsoft tell testers what it wants.

[Raymond.Groenendijk 255]

2 hours ago, simbol said:

I don't get why you all get sad. As a developer I want and need access to the Alpha because it gives me the opportunity to understand and plan well ahead anything I could do for this simulator when the SDK becomes available.

As a developer you should probably contact the team to request SDK access like all the other developers did... That SDK will need testing just like the sim itself does. The sim will need testing on a lot of different hardware and software combinations (both for performance as well as for bugs and anomalies), the servers will need to be tested with load, etc. So they do not exclusively need trained testers to have access to the sim. Besides reporting bugs they also just want to get feedback (what do people like, what don't they like, what should they change, etc.). 

A lot of the important numbers like FPS per hardware combination, used detail settings and resolution, but also crash reports will probably be sent to the team automatically. People who actually report usable bug reports will only be a bonus as they've got experienced testers in-house also. And maybe they make reporting a bug so easy (just push a button, describe the bug briefly and screens and video's along with a data dump will be sent in automatically) that anyone can easily report anything they see. 

[Wobbie 938]

Nice to see the professioners being told what to do, and how they should do things...

Especially those that have taken it upon themselves to rename the sim. 

It is no wonder that they have not been selected to alpha test the sim yet. 

[n4gix 4,947]

I certainly hope all of the selected "Tech Alpha 1" testers understand that what we will receive will be time-limited. After ASOBO has received enough reports, that release will cease to work entirely...

...and a new Tech Alpha with possibly an entirely different group of testers may be chosen, or they may simply expand the testing group.