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PMDG dropped first shot of their new NG3

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3 minutes ago, Tim-HH said:

That's pure speculation. Speaking of PMDG, no one knows if and when the NG3 will be released for the new Flight Simulator. The point is that most people want to avoid the situation that we had when PMDG released their P3D product line. Namely, paying twice for the exact same aircraft. So while your estimate could be correct, as long as there is a small chance that PMDG might release the NG3 earlier for the new FS, I'll certainly wait to avoid the aforementioned situation. Especially as PMDG has fueled the speculation of an early involvement with the new FS just two weeks ago.

For me it really depends on if PMDG will let us know about their future plans. So that I can make a factually based decision whether to buy now or wait. 
 

Agree 100%

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Chris Camp

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2 minutes ago, Tim-HH said:

For me it really depends on if PMDG will let us know about their future plans. So that I can make a factually based decision whether to buy now or wait. 

But Tim, we have no SDK.. there is no possibility for any vendor to be working towards this new simulator at this stage.. I don't know how else make people understand it is IMPOSIBLE for anybody to be working towards the new simulator.

We don't even know if we will actually be able to port our current products over or not.. how haw hard is to understand this?

S.

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1 hour ago, simbol said:

Based on which facts? What if the SDK doesn't give them all they need?  Besides do you think all developers just stopped working on their current projects when MS made the announcement?

I repeat again. Currently all developers are still waiting to see what it can be done for the new simulator. This means, we are NOT working for anything at the moment to support the new simulator, no because we are not willing to do so, but just because WE CAN'T, we have no tools yet to do so.

The product is just on Alpha guys, give everyone a break. All 3rd party content developers will continue their current planned roadmaps and projects, nothing has changed and nothing will until the new simulator gets closer to release.

'Micstatic' brought up a valid point so I'm not sure why you keep jumping on posters in a condescending manner in nearly every thread that mentions MSFS.  We get it, you just released a product for P3D right when a brand new sim gets announced so I feel your plight.  But I'd be hesitant as well to buy an expensive addon for P3D without clarification on future compatibility and pricing.  We of course don't know now but this will have to become clear as we move in to 2020. 

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6 minutes ago, simbol said:

But Tim, we have no SDK.. there is no possibility for any vendor to be working towards this new simulator at this stage.

I've fully understand that. But no one knows when the SDK will be available for the developers. Microsoft certainly has an interest that developers will be able to release their addons as quickly as possible and not 3+ years after the release of the new FS.  

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Just now, Flic1 said:

'Micstatic' brought up a valid point so I'm not sure why you keep jumping on posters in a condescending manner in nearly every thread that mentions MSFS.  We get it, you just released a product for P3D right when a brand new sim gets announced so I feel your plight.  But I'd be hesitant as well to buy an expensive addon for P3D without clarification on future compatibility and pricing.  We of course don't know now but this will have to become clear as we move in to 2020. 

Because there has been a very long campaign misleading people indicating we all 3rd party developers are already working towards porting over add-on's towards the new simulator. Which is based on just rumors and it is not true. And you can see it here again, people saying a PMDG is working already with MS.. where is the oficial statement to indicate they have wrote 1 single line of code for this sim? If you read Microsoft road map, you can clearly see the SDK is not ready and will not be for a while, so where is this conclusion coming from?.

Hell I got people emailing me this week asking how my add-on conversions is going.. it is NUTS.. it is time to people to get back to earth and understand what the true is.. it has nothing to do with my current release, etc. I have no plight.. I am just tired of this situation where people think we have a magical wand to create content for a simulator when it is still on ALPHA with no tools been made available to do so.

I am very much looking forward for this simulator, but everyone need to get their perceptions right. As usual with all my posts on these forums, I like people to get their facts right that is all as I hate fake news.

S.

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Just now, Tim-HH said:

I've fully understand that. But no one knows when the SDK will be available for the developers. Microsoft certainly has an interest that developers will be able to release their addons as quickly as possible and not 3+ years after the release of the new FS.  

Well how you think things work? things take time to develop this is my point.. and the clock starts when the SDK is out! how long you think it takes to build an airplane? a couple of months? it takes years...

Ask around other devs..

S.

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32 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

It's worth remembering that the NGX was split into 800/900 and 600/700 packages. There is no guarantee that we will get all of the NG planes in the release bundle.

That's exactly what I mean. PMDG's usual trick is to make the least popular variant the base model (e.g. 777-200LR) to ensure strong sales of the expansion (e.g. 777-300ER), effectively inflating the price for most. Given that history I wouldn't be surprised to see the MAX9 as an NG3 expansion and all the other MAX lengths as an expansion of that expansion 🤣 And then to buy them all again at the same price when MFS gains traction.

But as long as people will pay (begrudgingly or not) what I consider exorbitant prices, PMDG will keep charging them.

Edited by ckyliu
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16 minutes ago, simbol said:

Well how you think things work? things take time to develop this is my point.. and the clock starts when the SDK is out! how long you think it takes to build an airplane? a couple of months? it takes years...

Yes, it takes years if they start from scratch. But PMDG certainly don't have to do that if they decide to release the NG3 for the new FS. Also, no one knows how much work will be required to make an existing addon compatible with the new FS or how the 'Legacy Mode' will work. It's all speculation right now. And that's why I'm saying that it's simply not possible to estimate if the PMDG NG3 will be released for the new FS in 2021, 2023 or even later.

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2 minutes ago, Tim-HH said:

Yes, it takes years if they start from scratch. But PMDG certainly don't have to do that if they decide to release the NG3 for the new FS. Also, no one knows how much work will be required to make an existing addon compatible with the new FS or how the 'Legacy Mode' will work. It's all speculation right now. And that's why I'm saying that it's simply not possible to estimate if the PMDG NG3 will be released for the new FS in 2021, 2023 or even later.

You really think you can take all the source code and re-use it? All they can re-use is the external 3D model skeleton without textures.

Even the internal Virtual Cockpit needs to be rebuilt as MS is doing everything different for the new simulator.

Just imagine asking PMDG to port over to XP without rewriting their code. It is not possible.

You guys need to understand, what you wish in your heads, is not possible to be done. Everyone would be starting pretty much from scratch.

That is the reality here.

Regards,

Simbol 

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5 minutes ago, simbol said:

You really think you can take all the source code and re-use it? All they can re-use is the external 3D model skeleton without textures.

Even the internal Virtual Cockpit needs to be rebuilt as MS is doing everything different for the new simulator.

Just imagine asking PMDG to port over to XP without rewriting their code. It is not possible.

You guys need to understand, what you wish in your heads, is not possible to be done. Everyone would be starting pretty much from scratch.

That is the reality here.

So what's with the 'legacy mode' that's been referred to by the FS developers?

Surely the point of mentioning of legacy mode and the use of FSX code was to highlight that certain products can be ported across in a much shorter time-frame than would be possible from the re-writing of code entirely from scratch.
 

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40 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

That's exactly what I mean. PMDG's usual trick is to make the least popular variant the base model (e.g. 777-200LR) to ensure strong sales of the expansion (e.g. 777-300ER), effectively inflating the price for most. Given that history I wouldn't be surprised to see the MAX9 as an NG3 expansion and all the other MAX lengths as an expansion of that expansion 🤣 And then to buy them all again at the same price when MFS gains traction.

Their usual trick?  The base model of the 737NG is the 800/900, which are, the last time I checked, the most popular variants by a good margin.  Their 747 add-on included almost the whole range of pax and freighter variants, everything but the new -8 which came later, and which represents a small minority of the 747 airframes in use.  So one data point...the 777-300...is a trend now?  I think...not.

Hard to take your point seriously when you pad your argument with falsehoods,

 

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4 hours ago, simbol said:

This is a misunderstanding / misconception most users have.

Addons will take a long time to get to the new simulator from Microsoft. They are just about to reach Alpha, nobody has seen any SDK (so no idea if something can be ported over or not, or how) and creating study level airplanes can takes years anyway without including these factors.

Normal addons also take long time, specially when you find bugs with the SDK that requires addressing by the platform developers or create clever way around to bypass the issue.

The reality is, even if some addons can be ported, you might not see them in the new simulator until 2022-2023 and that is assuming everything goes well.

If you want something now, don't hold up.. You have plenty of time to enjoy it for your current simulator.

My 2 cents

Simbol 

Simbol, you should have mods post this as a sticky on the front page...

Regardless of the new sim or not I will be buying new stuff as it comes out, I have a small fortune in P3D now and will continue to enjoy for many years to come. 

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4 minutes ago, F737NG said:

So what's with the 'legacy mode' that's been referred to by the FS developers?

The .AIR file which makes the flight dynamics interact with the simulator.

Nothing else. That is 2% of a project to develop an airplane.

They mentioned they used some FSX code for the new simulator. It doesn't mean you can take an FSX addon and use it directly. This is another asumption people did by themselves which is wrong.

It all depends on the api calls they will expose via the SDK.

Regards,

S.

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30 minutes ago, w6kd said:

Their usual trick?  The base model of the 737NG is the 800/900, which are, the last time I checked, the most popular variants by a good margin.  Their 747 add-on included almost the whole range of pax and freighter variants, everything but the new -8 which came later, and which represents a small minority of the 747 airframes in use.  So one data point...the 777-300...is a trend now?  I think...not.

Hard to take your point seriously when you pad your argument with falsehoods,

The 800 and 700 are the most popular variants, which surprise surprise, is covered by two PMDG products (the 800/900 base and 600/700 expansion). The 900 were very much a rarity upon the NGX's release and even now it's mostly 900ERs that have sold (does the NGX even have a 900ER available?) The 747 is the exception, and perhaps only because the 747-8 was ready significantly later than the QOTSII base release (and furthermore I think they only included the -400 engine variants because they were included with QOTS1, they've suggested not doing "classic" 777-300 and -200ER on the basis of the number of engine variants). But being accused of "pad out with falsehoods" is exactly the response I expected, for PMDG can do no wrong in the eyes of some and woe betide anyone that should suggest the mighty PMDG are not perfect.

Edited by ckyliu
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