IFR in VR is awesome!

[hs118 707]

4 minutes ago, Flybynumbers said:

You can do full instrument approaches in VR.

I return for two questions since you quoted me. Are you using any live ATC? If so, how do you manage amended clearances?

[Flybynumbers 42]

1 minute ago, yurei said:

I return for two questions since you quoted me. Are you using any live ATC? If so, how do you manage amended clearances?

I never use live atc or fly online with my cockpit build. I just used gps/ILS navigation and did instrument approaches. All of which can be done in VR.

[sbclark 55]

As to ATC, I use Pilot2ATC, which is a voice activated package when I fly in VR. Also I use Active Sky running on another PC to pump weather into the simulator.

There is nothing like real world weather when flying in VR, especially when you break out of the clouds and see the strobe lights beckoning you to the runway......awesome! 

 

Bill Clark

[hs118 707]

1 hour ago, Flybynumbers said:

I never use live atc or fly online with my cockpit build. I just used gps/ILS navigation and did instrument approaches. All of which can be done in VR.

To the point of my first comment in this thread, "flying by instruments" is not the same as simulating real world IFR flight (which requires air traffic control to maintain aircraft separation.)

 

[hs118 707]

1 hour ago, sbclark said:

As to ATC, I use Pilot2ATC, which is a voice activated package when I fly in VR. A

Bill, in another thread you had described how you manage what we will call "blended reality". It seemed one of the more practical methods for dealing with the issues. 

For several years, I used default ATC, then switched to Pilot2ATC. Default ATC did pretty well with AI and aircraft separation. Pilot2ATC, the heavier the AI, the more likely there could be a conflict. In using the default and Pilot2ATC, I never in 4 years had the simulated controller change my route clearance. This is very unlike real world flying. 

Using your blended reality method with a live ATC service such as PilotEdge, perhaps the sequence would be:

1) without VR headset, startup aircraft, get amended clearance, etc. basically all before taxi

2) with VR headset, taxi, t/o. etc. assuming no more changes to route clearance.

3) without VR headset, cruise

4) with VR headset, TOD, descent, landing, etc. 

Still a little clunky for me but, as mentioned, more practical then some of the other methods I've heard.

There are tools for typing in notes in the VR space. But using a VR keyboard and mouse was a painful immersion killer for me.

There is software/hardware in process that promises to allow the mapping of direction and distance to virtual cockpit devices to their meat world counterparts in a physical cockpit....but this still does not solve what I call the "kneeboard problem". 

Anything you are aware of I could be missing?

Edited October 31, 2019 by yurei

[Flybynumbers 42]

1 hour ago, yurei said:

To the point of my first comment in this thread, "flying by instruments" is not the same as simulating real world IFR flight (which requires air traffic control to maintain aircraft separation.)

 

Well I can wait for Live ATC. I'm having plenty of fun flying VFR again...hadn't done much of that with my cockpit build. 🙂 

Also, I haven't been flying Live ATC in awhile but I seem to recall it being pretty slack on procedure..such as getting altitudes wrong.

https://learntofly.ca/vfr-ifr-cruising-altitudes/

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Flybynumbers

[Farlis 2,287]

4 hours ago, andreh said:

then that's arguably cooler than VR

But is it? You can only build one cockpit, but in VR you can have them all. To size, in 3D. You just can't touch anything.

[blueshark747 1,843]

25 minutes ago, Farlis said:

But is it? You can only build one cockpit, but in VR you can have them all. To size, in 3D. You just can't touch anything.

Exactly

For me its like the coolest part of this VR experience.

Each 3d virtual cockpit has its own character and mood when you are fully immersed inside.

I have 66 addon aircraft in my setup..every aircraft is a totally different visual experience and sound feel in VR.

From the gauge layout to the individually crafted stitching an textures of my cockpit seats in full stereoscopic 3d depth and convergence

And no I don't need to physically feel every button dial and switch in the cockpit or have a physical knee board I have the essential full yoke stick throttle levers and rudder pedals everything else my virtual imported screens and hands can take care of

Edited October 31, 2019 by blueshark747

[BrettT 63]

1 hour ago, yurei said:

but this still does not solve what I call the "kneeboard problem".

I would say that is likely the biggest hangup.  That being said I can write things down on a kneeboard with the headset on and then either lift the headset slightly to refresh my memory if needed or use the pass thru camera. 

Ultimately, I think it just comes down to a personal preference.  I have seen some very impressive fully modeled cockpits for 737's, A-10C, KA-50, etc that make me green with envy.  I have had thoughts of venturing down this path and going all in on something like that, but then I also know I am more than a one plane kind of guy so VR is perfect for that.  No real right or wrong just what peoples preference is. 

[andreh 125]

I'm not sure I get why flying VR would complicate taking instructions from ATC? Vatsim and such will work just fine. Just download your preferred client, set push-to-talk button and go. The one thing I can imagine being problematic is writing down long instructions if you can't remember them for readback. 

[sbclark 55]

Yuri,

When it comes to "realism" in flight simulation, it is perceived differently by all of us. As to Pilot2ATC (P2A), what I like about it, is that like 3rd party weather, it adds to the realism and immersion. When I setup P2A, I sort of restrict it a bit to keep it artificially real, which means I have to compromise. After all, even though I have 180 hours of real flight time in a variety GA planes, that was back in the 70's, well before the current ATC system evolved. I did not get an instrument rating, nor am I familiar with all the FAR standards.

When flying on instruments in my sim, I probably do not fly exactly as would be done in a real ATC environment, but I don't care. The important thing to me, is that I can make it feel a bit more real. I'm sure a "current," experienced, active pilot could probably manage IFR flight in a flight simulator under VR? I would no doubt fail, not having been properly trained, or by having years of IFR experience under my belt.

I'm an old guy having fun, as I can no longer fly real planes because of the costs, and medical issues.

Bill Clark

[andreh 125]

22 minutes ago, sbclark said:

I'm sure a "current," experienced, active pilot could probably manage IFR flight in a flight simulator under VR? I would no doubt fail, not having been properly trained, or by having years of IFR experience under my belt.

I'm not sure why you would think you'd fail flying in VR? There's no difference except the world is drawn in 3D around you. It's still the same simunlator, same aircraft. If you can do it on a screen you can do it in VR. 

[hs118 707]

Sorry for the delayed response, on anniversary holiday with the wife of 20 years.....

Definition: "IFR" -- real world instrument flight rules as practiced in the national airspace by certified pilots, regulated and controlled by the FAA

@BrettT and @sbclark yes, for sure, a big part of what we are talking about is the intersection of familiarity bias and usage modality. That is, "flightsim" is a very broad term/activity. Some in the VR community obviously have little or no experience in realworld IFR (@andreh) and, further, have little experience with how or, even, what other "flight simmers" are simulating. The assumption that all sim cockpits are airliners is a great example of this lack of community awareness.

To say that the kneeboard problem is unimportant or non-existent, is to be grossly unfamiliar with what real world pilots do in the cockpit. There are instructor pilots, for example MZeroA, who require their IFR/commercial students to write down EVERY radio frequency change given by ATC. Real world military pilots are required on every training flight, to record time and fuel state over all flightplan waypoints.

To echo and second Brett and Bill, there is no "right" or "wrong" way. BUT.....there is no VR that is the end of cockpits and monitors when it cannot emulate what real world pilots do. 

Seems like someone could write an app that allows the handwriting portion of FltPlanGo or ForeFlight to appear on a virtual notepad in the sim. But, I suppose, most "flightsimmers" would never use it. If anyone knows of such an app, I would be forever grateful and happy to try it.

PS I have a friend who makes a living building GA sim cockpits. The cockpits are being purchased by real world pilots to be used as training aids and to keep their skills sharp. Please tell those buyers how unimportant the kneeboard problem is.

Edited November 1, 2019 by yurei

[simba_nl 34]

On 10/31/2019 at 1:15 PM, blueshark747 said:

Most have openly admitted to not trying VR and having absolutely no desire to outside of this forum section the ones who own VR  or have tried it already stated their preference in past threads and their opinions were respected.

Your 20 year career in stereoscopic photogrammetry is irrelevant to this conversation and also please refrain from insults and name calling.

Thanks!

 

 

I'm Sorry but you are a very offending little man. Yelling and screaming all the time. I said it before and now again, Get yourself a life and please, please, begin your own Sim forum. Nobody is interested in your opinion because they never stuck.

Just MY 2 cents...

[HiFlyer 9,358]

Stopzz! 😋