PMDG NG3 for the MSFS2020 will cost $139.99

[Farlis 2,287]

4 minutes ago, ailchim said:

A monopoly only exists when there are barriers to entry preventing competitors bringing their products to market.  Nobody is stopping anybody from developing their own 737 are they?

Semantics. There are no other comparable 737, 747 and 777 add-ons available. Thus you either buy at PMDG for their steep prices or you don't fly these aircraft.

If you don't have a choice as a customer to buy an alternative, then there is a monopoly.

[CFIJose 5,485]

28 minutes ago, Farlis said:

The problem is that PMDG have a monopoly within the FS world.

They are top notch developer, but as been stated, iFly has an excellent rendition of the 737. My nephew flies the NGX & Max for AA and he gave the iFly version 2 thumbs up. I only paid $40 for the upgrade. So customers do have a choice.

I have a feeling that iFly will offer an updated version for MSFS2020 at a much more reasonable price. Let's hope that the SDK is released sooner than later.

Edited November 10, 2019 by DJJose

[jymp 168]

Stop buying at these prices, otherwise they will continue to increase.

[Dominique_K 10,149]

1 minute ago, Farlis said:

Semantics. There are no other comparable 737, 747 and 777 add-ons available. Thus you either buy at PMDG for their steep prices or you don't fly these aircraft.

If you don't have a choice as a customer to buy an alternative, then there is a monopoly.

But there is a choice  : iFly for the 737 and 747 or CaptainSim for the T7. And if there is an oligopoly is it PMDG, IFly and CaptainSim's doing ? 

Now lets suppose you are right and there is a monopoly, what about it ? Regulate PMDG with enforced margins and set up an agency to control their costs vs prices  ? I know that I am a little caricatural here but no more than those willing to give the MS store a monopoly on deciding 3PD addon prices ! 

The best market regulator is your willingness to pay. Or not.

[Raymond.Groenendijk 255]

2 hours ago, domkle said:

The bottom line is quality has a price and you are the only judge of the fairness of that price. Stating one’s discontentment is ok within reasonable limits. Don’t teach the maker of the plane what is best for him and throw abuse on him because you cannot afford or don’t want to spend that much. Your cries of outrage are indeed juvenile as there is no vital need to fly a 737 and, even more, to fly a PMDG 737.

People accepting the price are not «brainwashed», they think that they will have for 140 dollars of value over the next few years. And they are most probably right. To think that entertainment should be cheap is a new concept for me.

Sure, there is a difference between scolding a product maker for the high price of a product and telling him or other people that you won't buy it. I don't like it when people are throwing abuse to a product maker either, but people should be free to tell them that their price point is too high for them. It is their freedom and they should be allowed to express that, in a fair and civilized way of course. What I really didn't like is that people who are telling that they won't buy it because of that price point are being called juvenile. They are just expressing their opinion, which as a matter of fact may even be valuable information for the product maker. Who are you to call them juvenile for simply expressing their opinion? 

Also I am absolutely not calling people accepting the price brainwashed, it is their full right to do so. But I am calling people who tell others that they just should shut up and accept the price brainwashed, people should be free to express their frustration about high prices at all time. We are here on a discussion forum and now we are telling people they are juvenile because they dare to say they are not going to buy a product because of the price? Maybe it is a cultural thing though, I'm from a country where it is pretty normal to just say to a company that their prices are too steep. I know that in other parts of the world companies are seen more as an authority. 

For me the price is too steep simply because it doesn't stroke with my intended use of such a product and I would like to make that clear. Either PMDG or another company might use that information. Of course PMDG is free to set their own prices and in the end we WILL vote with our wallets. But what is so wrong with telling them now what we think about their prices, I just can't understand that... It might even be an indicator for another company to create a cheaper product for the people who don't need all the premium features that PMDG offers and then we all win.  

[ailchim 208]

15 minutes ago, Farlis said:

Semantics. There are no other comparable 737, 747 and 777 add-ons available. Thus you either buy at PMDG for their steep prices or you don't fly these aircraft.

If you don't have a choice as a customer to buy an alternative, then there is a monopoly.

The fact there are no competitors is not PMDG's fault.... one thing about software is that there are no physical assets in the supply chain to be monopolised.  Neither have they any power to prevent competitors from developing similar products,  In all probabilty a competitor wouldn't be able to claim "technical input from Boeing" but then, other developers produce top quality models without that sort of input (Majestic, FSLabs) and as we see here, those arguing against PMDG's pricing are doing so partly because they believe the PMDG offering is too complex for their needs. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by ailchim

[Dominique_K 10,149]

19 minutes ago, Raymond.Groenendijk said:

   

Raymond I don't say it is wrong to say that PMDG prices are excessive. I say it is juvenile to cry outrage for the price of something which is (or, at least, marketed as) a luxury good  because I think it is. I am sorry but it reminds me of a small kid having a tantrum because he is refused a candy.  Lets put things into perspective, you don't have to fly a PMDG bird as don't have to buy your wife a Gucci handbag or yourself a gold Rolex .

For the record I lived, lets see counting on my fingers now,  about 20 years of my life in Asia and the ME, I have some notion what bargaining is  😄  !

EDIT

PS do you have any idea of the margin on a Vuitton or Hermes or Gucci handbag made in a low wages country  ? The price is about 20 times the cost. PMDG has obvioulsy the strategy to position themselves as a luxury goods company. I encourage you to try to bargain at your nearest Vuitton shop and then tell me the discount you obtained.

Edited November 10, 2019 by domkle

[MarkW 1,493]

I would like to bring this back to some practical things we can all do.  Let's face it it if MSFS is as good as it appears to be we will all be switching over upon release and then building our inventory of addons.  So given that a big investment is coming up, what can we all do to keep costs under control.

1) Take a very hard look at what aircraft (and airport) addons you really use, and which you do not.  The number of addons I have purchased only to fly them for a week or two, or maybe not at all is unbelievable.  I still have ORBX Innsbruck installed on my computer and have never once flown there....I just remembered typing this that I had it at all.

2) Only buy the base package.  In the past I have purchase PMDG base and addon packages, I think this time I will just stick with the base.  The developers of base and addon packages spend a lot of time explaining all of the subtle differences and nuances between the -700 and -800 or A320 and A319, which i am sure is significant in the real world but somehow in a sim it does not seem to carry over and I can almost never tell the difference when sitting in the left seat.  This alone will reduce the cost a lot and still give you access to a great aircraft.

Just back to PMDG and their pricing, I am actually wondering if they are purposely making it a very high cost to reduce sales just from a practical point of having to support the product.  Imagine if MSFS really takes off and they release at say $50 and add 100,000 new customers that are newbies and need support on the aircraft....they simply could not handle the influx.  Something to consider.

[Raymond.Groenendijk 255]

2 minutes ago, domkle said:

Raymond I don't say it is wrong to say that PMDG prices are excessive. I say it is juvenile to cry outrage for the price of something which is (or, at least, marketed as) a luxury good  because I think it is. I am sorry but it reminds me of a small kid having a tantrum because he is refused a candy.  Lets put things into perspective, you don't have to fly a PMDG bird as don't have to buy your wife a Gucci handbag or yourself a gold Rolex .

For the record I lived, lets see counting on my fingers now,  about 20 years of my life in Asia and the ME, I have some notion what bargaining is  😄  !

LOL, yes you'll probably know every inch about bargaining then 🙂 

I think we all might read a lot of these posts differently and that may have something to do with cultural differences or maybe age differences and differences in wealth. I didn't see a small kid having a tantrum when I read those posts for example, but sure there is some frustration with some people and I can understand that. I'm not frustrated by the price, nor am I crying or having a tantrum, just saying that I won't buy it at that price. If PMDG is a luxury good then so be it, I can live with that. I really hope iFly or a comparable company jumps in the gap between in that case. 

[Dominique_K 10,149]

1 minute ago, Raymond.Groenendijk said:

 I really hope iFly or a comparable company jumps in the gap between in that case. 

I strongly agree.

[Raymond.Groenendijk 255]

5 minutes ago, MarkW said:

Just back to PMDG and their pricing, I am actually wondering if they are purposely making it a very high cost to reduce sales just from a practical point of having to support the product.  Imagine if MSFS really takes off and they release at say $50 and add 100,000 new customers that are newbies and need support on the aircraft....they simply could not handle the influx.  Something to consider.

That's an interesting point and it might actually make sense from a business point of view. 

[zmak 331]

Its not just PMDG . without fs2crew I wouldn't bother with PMDG and switch to Ifly if I have to do all the (unrealistic) work by myself. Of course fscrew will have their hand up for 100% mark up for round 3 as well.

 

[Dominique_K 10,149]

12 minutes ago, MarkW said:

 

I cannot agree more on everything you say about a sensible, more focused buying strategy and the fact that PMDG has now a strategy prioritizing the margin over the sale volume and downsizing its customer base.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,961]

One of the benefits of the PMDG737 in P3D that I don’t think has been mentioned is they release a SDK which allows owners of GoFlight kit to map controls to the aircraft using Pollypot’s excellent GIT program. That has been a revelation for me because otherwise I’d still be clicking the mouse.

That costs money to develop and I don’t know if any other 737 developers have a similar capability. ProSim do but that’s for cockpit builders and much more expensive. So whilst the MFS20 version is more expensive than I would have liked it’s unrivalled in certain aspects.

[F737MAX 5,608]

Detailed or not. Value for the quality or not. Rebate or not. We should all be able to agree that $140 (possibly ~2.5x the retail price of MSFS) is a lot of money for any product. Even more so if the usual additional expansion package that PMDG produces comes in at another $30 - $70.

As much as I like PMDG's depth and attention to detail, I hope that the sales numbers encourage them to bring the pricing back down.
Failing that, I would like other developers, whether Boeing specialists QualityWings or iFly, or indeed anyone else, take a look and realise there's a considerable gap left for them in the market at a much lower price point.
Considering that there's no guarantee that $140 will be the final price for the NG3, I'd hope that someone takes the opportunity.

I'm fortunate I can afford to buy at PMDG prices and have done with most of their products previously. However, I'm seriously hesitating on whether to buy or not and I cannot be the only one thinking that.
In the same way that Aerosoft doesn't appear to have really challenged FSLabs' A32x, it seems that a lack of a genuine rival has allowed PMDG to charge free rein. Serious competition can only be good for our wallets and make the community a healthier place.
 

Edited November 10, 2019 by F737NG
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