On 1/9/2020 at 12:25 AM, Ron Attwood said:

Don't hold your breath.

Unfortunately you were right, nothing much to talk about in their latest update.

What a shame the "post your shoesize" thread has been deleted. That would have been so interesting. Think of rudder pedals!

 

44 minutes ago, GlideBy said:

in2tech,

Most people mean no internet at the moment.  So you had internet to download it, but now you don't.  So if you can get it, then you can play it without internet just with the lowest level of scenery.  And we know that it will come to Xbox (unknown which gen), so that might be stand alone no internet needed with some scenery on disc.  But this is unknown.  It is possible they will have a physical disc for PC that might include some scenery.  

Next, if you get the program and you have a slow internet, you can preload certain areas.  After they are preloaded, then you don't need internet after that.  So you could play for weeks with that scenery without an internet connection.   

Although, depending on the service, you might need internet every so often for DRM.  I don't know if Microsoft's stores needs online periodic verification.  And Steam is game/studio dependant.

And we also know if you have slow internet they have 20 levels of realism to work with slower speeds.  

Did I answer the question?

 

Yeah it's not a hard concept it's very similar to how Netflix/Amazon Prime works.

1. You either have a fast internet connection so you can stream the content at very high quality such as 4K.

2. You have a good but not good enough internet connection so you stream the content at good quality 1080p.

3. You don't have a good internet connect but you can download the content beforehand @ 4K/1080p and watch it offline.

 

None of the above are new and we've all been doing a combination of the 3 for the last 5-7 years and can be applied to how Asobo plan on streaming MSFS scenery.

Edited January 10, 20206 yr by highflyer2020

I don't know why anyone is worrying about this aspect of the sim.  They've already confirmed, more than once, what kind of downstream will be required for the optimal "live" connected experience, and it's between 10-15mbps.  If you've got approximately a 20mbps+ connection, you'll be fine for the best experience.  And if you can't quite hit that target, they've explained that the sim will adjust the quality dynamically, based on the type of connection it has.

And you're not downloading the ENTIRE scenery everywhere you go.  They gave a decent explanation of how this works, in one of the earliest Discovery videos (maybe even the first one?).

This is one of the aspects of MSFS for which we actually already have a lot of solid information, straight from Asobo themselves.  If you have a bog standard residential internet connection, it'll be a non-issue.  If you have the sketchiest connection on the planet, you might not get the complete A1 VIP experience at all times, unless you pre-cache your flight plan.

I'm less worried about the new MFS than I am about the grade school antics in this thread.  Wowza.

On 1/8/2020 at 11:46 AM, Ray Proudfoot said:

Have you never heard the saying “the customer is always right”?

I have and its not true, I've worked in retail for 15 years.  1+1 just doesnt equal 3

15 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_customer_is_always_right

and one product may not be suitable for all consumers, which is why consumers have the choice between different products. Because if you want to suit everyone you make a product that is often heartless, and which ends up pleasing no one.

to come back to the subject, I appreciate the flight simulator approach, this content distribution allows you to do things that no one else does today, it makes them different, it makes them unique, and so it's a choice that won't please everyone, but will appeal strongly to others.

because the only solution to your problem is to remove the streamed content. It won't make the offline content more beautiful, but it will take all the appeal out of this simulator. What I least wish for is a clone of what exists today.

Edited January 10, 20206 yr by azulkb

1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

And if you did then there must have been times when the customer was right.

My point is only that the customer is not always right. thats all.

6 minutes ago, Brandon0110 said:

My point is only that the customer is not always right. thats all.

Agreed. It’s all down to context really.

On 1/8/2020 at 3:56 PM, Ray Proudfoot said:

It makes you wonder how exhibitors at Flight Sim Shows such as RAF Cosford or Lelystad, Netherlands will manage when there's no internet provided and users have to rely on downloading specific areas beforehand or 4G via a dongle assuming the signal is decent enough.

This has never been a problem with FSX, P3D and XPlane but certainly will be if a visitor to the stand asks to fly in a part of the world where the scenery hasn't been cached. You have a great simulator but cannot show people anything but small areas of the world. Hmmm.

It's a moot point because any venue worth its salt should be providing decent Wifi. If they don't, exhibitors know in advance and 4G coverage with a decent antenna (not just a cheap dongle) is better than a smartphone. Even without connectivity, a big enough drive could caché a significant portion of the Netherlands or UK which would cover the majority of attendees. If you do have to go full offline mode it's still going to beat FSX/P3D scenery so what's the big issue? And besides, almost all attendees to a flight sim exhibition/convention would already have the simulator so why would they need to fly over their own locale, far more likely to want demonstration of whatever addons the exhibitor makes.

You've picked a niche example to again protest against the unstoppable march of progress; I feel your posts are often just scrabbling for excuses to avoid writing off your P3D investment or otherwise justify remaining with P3D - you don't need justify your decisions to us Avsim users, but justifying it to your own mind I'm not so sure.

Edited January 10, 20206 yr by ckyliu

8 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

You've picked a niché example to remonstrate again against the unstoppable march of progress. I feel your posts are just scrabbling for excuses so you don't have to write off your P3D investment or justify remaining with P3D - you don't need justify your decisions to the Avsim userbase but your own mind I'm not so sure.

No. I’ve given an example of what might happen if MFS is available to purchase by the end of September and exhibitors are demonstrating it at the Cosford show.

You seem to be under the impression I have no interest in this sim. You would be wrong. Whilst I won’t be buying it as soon as it’s released should FS Labs decide to develop Concorde for it then that would guarantee I would eventually buy it.

However, if they choose to develop for P3D v5 then I would buy that version but my mind would still be open to MFS.

@Ray Proudfoot In that situation who would be demonstrating it aside from Microsoft? Perhaps a peripheral manufacturer or a developer wanting to show compatibility of their stuff, but then is the scenery area really relevant? Microsoft can afford storage for a huge scenery cache or even a high speed satellite data link if desired, just look at the number and spec of machines they used for the hands-on preview.

You obviously must have some MFS interest because you post quite a bit in this section, but it invariably seems to be "rare situation X will be a problem" and I don't think many of your gripes would apply to much of the potential userbase. We're not really very different in what and how we flight sim (although I do local VFR also) and I can see me being all over MFS like a rash! Whilst I'm not immediately uninstalling P3Dv4 I have stopped buying stuff for it.

Edited January 10, 20206 yr by ckyliu

@ckyliu, I suppose I’m a pragmatist. I used to be a programmer and always had to consider what would happen if the user did something  when they shouldn’t.

You learn to think about things that could go wrong rather than think everything will be fine and then discover the user has broken your program because you didn’t think of the crazy things they might do because you never considered they would do them.

It looks an impressive simulator and of course 99% of the time I will be flying at home with a decent internet connection. But I still remain wary - just my nature.

Well Asobo seem to have thought through most of the potential connectivity issues with the scenery streaming model and provided contingencies, the only significant issue I can foresee is scenery servers struggling to keep up with demand during the first few months of release and forcing us to pre-cache. No doubt there will be some issues along the way because as you say people find unique ways to break things or have unique circumstances but I think the vast majority are going to be just smitten, assuming their hardware is up to the job! You can run MFS alongside P3D, it's not like you have to choose which to have.

Edited January 10, 20206 yr by ckyliu

18 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

No. I’ve given an example of what might happen if MFS is available to purchase by the end of September and exhibitors are demonstrating it at the Cosford show..

What will happen is the 2020 section - IF Microsoft decide to go to an obscure location - will have wall to wall crowds, and p3d / x-plane vendors will be sitting twiddling their thumbs. 

47 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

Well Asobo seem to have thought through most of the potential connectivity issues with the scenery streaming model and provided contingencies, the only significant issue I can foresee is scenery servers struggling to keep up with demand during the first few months of release and forcing us to pre-cache. No doubt there will be some issues along the way because as you say people find unique ways to break things or have unique circumstances but I think the vast majority are going to be just smitten, assuming their hardware is up to the job! You can run MFS alongside P3D, it's not like you have to choose which to have.

Much of what has been demonstrated looks good but until the user can try it themselves he won't truly know how it will operate on his setup. Hardware will be a factor of course and maybe, just maybe, my decision to go with 32Gb RAM rather than 16Gb will be vindicated on the PC I bought just over a year ago.

There are other concerns though and not related to Microsoft. I have invested hundreds of pounds in GoFlight hardware and that company has been very quiet for a year or two now whilst new management take over. I've just checked Facebook and they have announced new owners back in October. Hopefully that means my hardware will still work in MFS.

I will certainly keep P3D v3 and v4 running - the former for Concorde and the latter whilst I evaluate what is needed for MFS.