One thing that really impresses me about xplane 11 is how the autogen and infrastructure is classed by country. In germany, for instance, houses are not just blocks, but actually have pointed rooftops in the style you actually see there. Furthermore, the highways have the typical blue signs and even have German names on it. Canadian highways have the yellow lines. Cannot speak for other countries but this level of immersion and realism is quite astonishing.

In MSFS, I do not need names on highway signs, but I hope autogen classification goes beyond just accurate roof colors (although that is important) and includes detail specific to the region. I hope roads have good detail.  

 

 

I agree for the rooftops, but I usually don't look out for road signs. I trust my nav display.

I can't go into detail, but my guess is, you won't be disappointed.

Since MSFS will have autogen based on Bing imagery generated by AI...I'd be surprised if we didn't get that.

Have a look at this picture of Dubai (which is not a 3D bing city) and see:

2 hours ago, highflyer2020 said:

Have a look at this picture of Dubai (which is not a 3D bing city) and see

Impressive for a (non-3D Bing) city .

On 2/1/2020 at 2:33 PM, 767lover said:

One thing that really impresses me about xplane 11 is how the autogen and infrastructure is classed by country. In germany, for instance, houses are not just blocks, but actually have pointed rooftops in the style you actually see there. Furthermore, the highways have the typical blue signs and even have German names on it. Canadian highways have the yellow lines. Cannot speak for other countries but this level of immersion and realism is quite astonishing.

In MSFS, I do not need names on highway signs, but I hope autogen classification goes beyond just accurate roof colors (although that is important) and includes detail specific to the region. I hope roads have good detail.  

 

 

I think there is a misunderstanding. By default, out of the box, the other simulator you mentioned has only 2 types of autgen (US and Europe).

Even Canada has californian or Florida like autogen...

Yes, there are only 2 variations and they are applied on the planet as a whole. 

However, a commercial addon was released recently to add more autogen types / variations for the world.

In fact I created a scenery for that other simulator you mentioned and I worked on a VFR procedural autogen customization project. I had to replace the London or Paris like townhouses that were showing in a country in the Middle East with custom concrete buildings I created.

As far as I can observe in the previews of MSFS and the feature discovery videos and based on the tech they use to populate the virtual world, autogen types will be in my opinion way more customized than the other simulator.

Moreover, MSFS uses the concept of facades like the other sim but the Asobo Facades seem to more detailed as well.

7 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

By default, out of the box, the other simulator you mentioned has only 2 types of autgen (US and Europe).

In fact I created a scenery for that other simulator you mentioned

...in my opinion way more customized than the other simulator.

... like the other sim but the Asobo Facades seem to more detailed as well.

The aviation world is full of acronyms, so please don't write "the other sim". It is "TOS". People who use it are the other sim simmers, or "TOSS" for short. collectively we should refer to them as "TOSSE,,," no hang on, that wont work either.

As you were.

On 2/1/2020 at 8:15 PM, Nuno Pinto said:

I can't go into detail, but my guess is, you won't be disappointed.

Indeed, we already know custom building type, roof type and colour is confirmed, because Lionel confirms this in the very first Feature Discovery Series video: World, at the 3 Minute 50 Seconds mark.

"what shape the building should have, what colours its roof should be, what is the type of roof"

Lionel goes onto say that Asobo solved this using Azure Cloud Computing.

Edited February 3, 20206 yr by poplar

37 minutes ago, poplar said:

Indeed, we already know custom building type, roof type and colour is confirmed, because Lionel confirms this in the very first Feature Discovery Series video: World, at the 3 Minute 50 Seconds mark.

"what shape the building should have, what colours its roof should be, what is the type of roof"

Lionel goes onto say that Asobo solved this using Azure Cloud Computing.

Yes, yet, as the Dubai screenshot show above, the infrastructure height and the small variations in the facades/walls angles and extrusions could remain tricky to get right unless they rely on other data or estimates / algorithms or analyze the shadows etc.

For example we see in the Dubai screenshot a Hotel in that Resort on the coast, in the simulator, the infrastructure is more like a warehouse or a factory in terms of height and walls variations / details.

Edited February 3, 20206 yr by Claviateur

27 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

Yes, yet, as the Dubai screenshot show above, the infrastructure height and the small variations in the facades/walls angles and extrusions could remain tricky to get right unless they rely on other data or estimates / algorithms or analyze the shadows etc.

For example we see in the Dubai screenshot a Hotel in that Resort on the coast, in the simulator, the infrastructure is more like a warehouse or a factory in terms of height and walls variations / details.

You're right. What is comforting about this approach (using Azure Cloud Computing) and the fact that textures are streamed, is that their "buildings generation system" can constantly be improved as the product matures. For example, Lionel goes on to say that when Bing stores an original satellite image of an area covered temporarily by clouds, perhaps in the case of Dubai, their algorithm will try to account for that. Meaning, there will always be auto-gen estimates, because the satellite data may never be 100% clear of real cloud cover or obtrusions (sensitive geo-graphical areas which cannot be imaged and are intentionally blurred), which makes this whole process on-going and likely will never be perfected.

Edited February 3, 20206 yr by poplar

I suggest that if you are an alpha tester that you are very careful with your comments. 

4 hours ago, 188AHC said:

I suggest that if you are an alpha tester that you are very careful with your comments. 

Not sure if you are referring to me? I can very safely say (sadly) that I am not an Alpha tester (yet), but I have studied all the Discovery Series videos in detail and watched all the B roll video which was released publicly last September. 

18 hours ago, Claviateur said:

Yes, yet, as the Dubai screenshot show above, the infrastructure height and the small variations in the facades/walls angles and extrusions could remain tricky to get right unless they rely on other data or estimates / algorithms or analyze the shadows etc.

For example we see in the Dubai screenshot a Hotel in that Resort on the coast, in the simulator, the infrastructure is more like a warehouse or a factory in terms of height and walls variations / details.

Yep, that's one of the limitations of AI autogen. You can only create things out of the info you got. You can't do magic.

So we should look at it in a humble way, then we will maybe be surprised by what Azure can do.

3 hours ago, tweekz said:

Yep, that's one of the limitations of AI autogen. You can only create things out of the info you got. You can't do magic.

So we should look at it in a humble way, then we will maybe be surprised by what Azure can do.

Hopefully, the SDK will allow us to improve and finetune these extruded AI generated footprints through rules and commads per type, area, regions etc.

But again, based on Asobo's attention to details, I won't be surprised if they get these to the next level themselves with additional algorithms to create height variations within the same structure.

For example, this beach resort, instead of being one piece and looking like a wide warehouse, it could be cut into portions with a random variation of height applied for each portion withing a specified range.

Another infrastructure seems missing the interior cut (donut cut), that too, can be split into multiple instances and exrtuded individually.

Of course, this process should be automated somehow.

 

Edited February 4, 20206 yr by Claviateur

5 hours ago, tweekz said:

Yep, that's one of the limitations of AI autogen. You can only create things out of the info you got. You can't do magic.

well... first lets get out of the way that AI in this context doesnt really have much meaning. There are lots of different types of AI, and generally the rule over the years has been "once it works its not AI anymore".

That caveat aside, what has continually amazed me over the years with "true" AI is emergent behaviour, seemingly related to things it should know nothing about.

I first saw this around 1998, when multiplayer AI learnt to hide behind trees it technically didnt even know existed. Theres been some great movement on all that in the last 20 odd years, some of which is now even in mass consumer products.

There are two problems for Asobo to address here.

First is the kind of stuff in the op.

Ill state categorically I'm sure they will do a good job of this, its what they are strongest at, why they were chosen and fairly well done already. Also lots of value there outside of msfs2020.

The second, much harder problem now is doing it in detail, realtime on hardware that doesnt cost a 5 or 6 figure sum.

That remains to be seen - but imho if you expect any level of quality even remotely similar to what has been shown so far on consumer grade hardware that is currently for sale you will end up disappointed.

 

Edited February 4, 20206 yr by mSparks