More info....

 

Much more detailed than FSX ones. I just miss a more realistic approach on how the pushback works. 

Edited August 5, 20205 yr by aleex

I don't think that Sydney ground would be too impressed with every aircraft calling up for things like jetways, catering trucks and baggage. If they persist with this then COMM method then at least have a discrete ground services frequency. It would cause havoc on VATSIM and IVAO online nextworks. A turnaround could get very tedious with all that communication. There needs to be some sort of selectable auto function for core services. It does look very good though and not too dissimilar to GSX in the GUI.

Needs a lot of work to be more realistic. Most of that stuff happens fairly automatically as far as the crew are concerned when they are on the ramp. If anyone wants to make their stuff a bit more realistic, here's what really happens. Some of this there is not much you can do about, but things such as putting the fuel on before the passengers would be more realistic. Anyway...

1. You don't 'request' the jet bridge, the TCO puts it on as a standard procedure; nobody is getting on or off the thing without that, so it's not like it's an optional choice, except on something with airstairs.

2. Most of the time you don't use a mobile GPU except at remote stands, the airport stands have a fixed electrical power outlet, an exception is some budget airlines which don't want to pay for the F.E.P. but either way you don't request that either, it is standard procedure to put the power on when an aircraft arrives. The only time that procedure differs is if the airline crew have specifically messaged the service agent via either ACARS or very occasionally the radio whilst they are still en-route to tell them either the APU is broken, or that they don't want power because they are shutting the aeroplane down for the night. If the APU is broken, or the aircraft type does not have an APU (ATR-72 for example), that's an 'FEP shutdown'.  On an FEP shutdown, the aircraft taxies on stand, leaves its engine running (preferably only the number 1 engine, or with hotel mode engaged on an ATR) and keeps the anti-collision beacons on. The nose wheel is chocked, then the power is connected to the aeroplane and the crew are given a hand signal to confirm this, then the aircraft engines can be shut down. 

3. Usually, there are cones placed around the aircraft after it is chocked (unless there are high winds). All vehicles drive around the outside of these with the exception of the fuel truck.

4. Very occasionally some flight deck crews do get involved in dealing with the catering, but it's usually only on small airliners such as the Dornier 328, where there is one flight attendant and the flight deck crew pitch in to help that person. Otherwise the Catering trucks and people pretty much do their thing without any interaction with the cockpit crew. 

5. Vehicles are never driven onto, or backed off aeroplanes without a banksman guiding the operation.

6. The flight deck crew typically don't ask for the passengers bags, they are loaded as a standard procedure. They will occasionally let you know if their own bags are to be either offloaded or stay on the aeroplane for a turnaround, but other than that, they just deal with the TCO's load report. They might start talking to the ground if there is an issue, such as a passenger not turning up and their bag having to be found and offloaded. Another time they do get involved is if firearms and ammunition is being loaded on board, but other than this, the load plan tells them all they need to know.

7. Fuel is usually requested before the aeroplane has even arrived at the airport, via ACARS or similar. Sometimes the crew will speak with the fueler, sometimes they will show the fueler a white board or (on posher airlines) an illuminated board (a bit like they use at footy matches to tell which player is being substituted) with the required amount of fuel written on it. The fueler usually comes to the cockpit to get the load signed off. However, there are strict rules about when you can fuel an aeroplane and if there are passengers on board, they must be capable of being evacuated as quickly as possible, so it is common practice to put a set of steps on the rear port door of the airliners, this is usually used by the cleaners who quickly give the aircraft a clean on a turnaround, but is left on as an additional evacuation route whilst the aeroplane is being fueled. It is taken off when the fuel truck stops fueling and disconnects. The vast majority of fuel trucks are not tankers, they are mobile pump vehicles which connect to an underground fuel outlet on the ramp and then pump fuel up from there, although this is not the case everywhere and there are some fuel tankers at most airports, but usually not that many.

8. You don't request a pushback tug, the airline service agent company for your airline provides one and it goes to the stand before you get there so it can park at the head of the stand before the aeroplane blocks the way. In most cases, it is connected whilst the plane is being dealt with on the turnaround although some airlines want you to contact the flight deck crew and ask then if it is okay to do so, just so they can be careful not to knock the steering tiller whilst you are working on things however, the bypass pin is inserted before the towbar or tug is connected anyway, so this is more of a courtesy than anything else.

9. When everything is all finished and typically about two or three minutes before you are due to depart, the person who is in charge of the engine starts who will be on the headset connected to the aeroplane as it pushes out, performs a walkaround check of the aeroplane to ensure it is all okay and that all the doors are shut and all the equipment is clear of the aircraft. They then tell the crew about this. The crew then calls for 'push and start' and if this is approved, they put the anti-collision beacon on. The headset person then gets a person to go in the roadway behind the aeroplane with a set of marshaling wands so they can stop ground traffic behind the aeroplane, then they tell the crw to release the parking brake. Then they supervise the pushback communicating with the tug driver via hand signals. Once the aeroplane is on the taxiways well clear of the ramp, then they will tell the crew they can start an engine and they will watch it to make sure it starts up okay, then they will do the same for the other engine and when the aeoplane reaches the stand's designated Tug Release Point (TRP), it is stopped, they tell the crew to put the parking brake on, then they disconnect the tug/bar, remove the bypass pin and close the hatches for the comms gear. They then walk clear of the wing and make sure the tug is clear, then they hold up the bypass pin so the crew can see it is removed and give a cheery wave. That's not an optional way of doing it, it is always how it is done.

Hopefully this is something either Asobo or a TPD will sort out to make it an option to be a bit more automated - as it is where the pilots are concerned - as well as a bit more realistic. On the plus side however, it's better than what FSX or P3D has unless you buy GSX and it clearly works okay, so that's all good.

Edited August 5, 20205 yr by Chock

Heavies in MSFS definitely look like a work in progress. I suspect that the main use, initially at least, for seasoned simmers, will be the GA aspect of it.

Pilot to ground services: "could you please" do something...

For every request. Too much formal, isn't it?

What do you guys think?

43 minutes ago, Chock said:

Needs a lot of work to be more realistic. Most of that stuff happens fairly automatically as far as the crew are concerned when they are on the ramp. Hopefully this is something either Asobo or a TPD will sort out to make it an option to be a bit more automated - as it is where the pilots are concerned - as well as a bit more realistic. On the plus side however, it's better than what FSX or P3D has unless you buy GSX and it clearly works okay, so that's all good.

Here, I shortened your post for you.

16 minutes ago, Emerson67 said:

Pilot to ground services: "could you please" do something...

For every request. Too much formal, isn't it?

What do you guys think?

Nah. Whilst brevity is the norm, but you'd be surprised how chatty things can get sometimes, but people are almost always all 'please, sir and thank you' when it comes to ground/flight deck comms, or at the very least friendly.

But the most important part is clarity, so not using any idioms with foreign crews, since not everyone is English even though that is the language used. So with a BA crew who are clearly English and with whom I might have been chatting to about the latest footy scores whilst we were waiting for the ATC clearance, I might say: 'you're clear to crank one or two at your discretion mate', or 'feel free to start the rubber bands', but with a Spanish guy from Vueling whose English might not be that good, I'd be more formal tell them: 'you're clear to start number 2 sir'.

One thing I always do is report: 'push commencing, standby on engines 1 and 2', when the tug start rolling, so they know not to ask me to crank them, because I'll tell them when they are clear. Airbus NEO crews are always mad keen to get the engines going ASAP because they spool up pretty slowly.

Every time I disconnect, after a push, I usually say something like: 'I'm disconnecting, hold position and await visual confirmation on the right/left. Have a good flight sir' and I always make sure it is a very cheery wave I give too when showing them the bypass pins. Nice manners cost nothing.

4 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

'' ''

Did the same with yours, but left the important part in.

IMHO nomenclature of "Operations" should be used instead of asking "Ground" for services.  In real world, Operations (for some locations Dispatch would be interchangeable) is the liaison anyway between Cockpit, Ramp and Passenger Services anyway.

Looks cool. But I’ve always hated default atc and use only vatsim. Would like the option to turn off atc voice for ground procedures and to prevent vatsim conflict. How do you control what direction you are pushed?

9 hours ago, Chock said:

[...]

5. Vehicles are never driven onto, or backed off aeroplanes without a banksman guiding the operation.

[...]

Agree 100% (yes I read it all). Though to this I might wanna add, Vehicles are never driven into persons! 🤣

I'd prefer a sort of automatic solution as has been suggested before, as you just don't interfere with most of this stuff. Deciding on the fuel amount at some point is wise as it's one of the things you'd obviously do irl. All other services would just do their thing and you'd only intervene with ops when there are issues (that shall better not be simulated, thank you). If they do some sort of an "ops freq", it should definitely be seperate from the ATC. I don't even care if they get correct frequencies (those might be hard to get) or a frequency at all. Just some menu option would do, and without all the unnecessary voice interaction.

I don't know if that pushback was recorded in real time but it seemed extremely slow. Usually you can expect to see 2-3 knots GS during pushback. You talked about TRPs, some airports have breakaway areas that serve for a number of stands, or ATC clears you to a specific one. In FSX the pushback would end just about anywhere, I surely hope they at least fixed this in a way you'd end up on a taxiway centerline. That would already make me happy for now as it would be a major improvement. Although for the future I would not mind to have some entity in the BGLs (or their newer equivalent) to specify TRPs resp. breakaway areas. They introduced these weird new options to "steer the tug to the left/right" and to "stop pushback". Instead they should have made the ATC decide which direction to face based on the runway in use, and if the comm with the rampie was simulated, then forward that information to him. Just as irl.

The bugs that are quite obvious (jetway speed, animation and movement, vehicle movement, vehicle running into persons, ...) will hopefully be fixed soon after release. As I don't think they will before.

 

9 hours ago, Emerson67 said:

Pilot to ground services: "could you please" do something...

For every request. Too much formal, isn't it?

What do you guys think?

As Chuck already said, there is quite a difference between ATC and operations comm. Actually I hate it when people will explain in greath lengths what CB formation they are seeing in front of them, and the multiple options of how they could/might/would eventually divert around them etc. and all the other unnecessary jibber-jabber. Something like "ABC123 turning right 20° to avoid" is sufficient and effective. On operations frequencies though things get way more natural in terms of language usage, but then again there is no given phraseology that needs to be adhered to.

Edited August 6, 20205 yr by badderjet

1 hour ago, badderjet said:

 

I don't know if that pushback was recorded in real time but it seemed extremely slow.

 

He explained in the video that he'd mistakenly left the brakes on in the aircraft.

5 hours ago, Shug said:

He explained in the video that he'd mistakenly left the brakes on in the aircraft.

Thanks. I believe I watched it without sound so I missed that one.

anybody have any idea if the sound can be removed and if you can control whether nose is pointing left or right?