POV - am I the only one?

[SierraHotel 982]

2 hours ago, FlyingInACessna said:

Have you ever flown an airplane IRL? The default position is way too low. It’s especially apparent when it comes to the round out on final and you’re holding the airplane off. In the default view, you can’t see the runway while you’re holding the plane off, which is completely unrealistic and not very safe.

Not a Cessna, Robin only. Re the sim, I just click up on my 's and I'm in the perfect position. As per my streams.

[captain420 3,099]

Would appreciate if some ppl can post a more realistic default POV so that those of us who have never sat in the cockpit of these planes can set it to in the sim for a more realistic experience. I feel that the default views are set up on the low side. 

But if anyone know what an actual POV while sitting in the pilot's seat for planes like C172, A320, 787, 747 can post some image for reference so that we can get an idea, that would be helpful.

[robert young 2,897]

9 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

I understood exactly what you meant and also noted with some amusement that nobody in this thread seems to have grasped the issue.

Obviously, there are work arounds: hit the space bar, lower/raise eyepoint, save 30 different custom views, zoom out zoom in, but, IMHO, it never really looks and feels right.

Thank you.

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

22 hours ago, MadDog said:

You can adjust the default viewpoint height for all aircraft in Options > General > Camera.

Under the Cockpit Camera heading, change the slider for Height and save.  A Height of 60 with a Zoom of 55 works good for me in most aircraft.

This is a really good tip!  Should be pinned..

I am quite tall and like 70 / 55 for the Bonanza and C172 🙂

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

56 minutes ago, captain420 said:

Would appreciate if some ppl can post a more realistic default POV so that those of us who have never sat in the cockpit of these planes can set it to in the sim for a more realistic experience. I feel that the default views are set up on the low side. 

But if anyone know what an actual POV while sitting in the pilot's seat for planes like C172, A320, 787, 747 can post some image for reference so that we can get an idea, that would be helpful.

In the real aircraft, seats are adjustable.. and your height matters too...

Some not so tall pilots bring a cushion to sit on..

So there is no "actual POV".. just personal preference.

[JETPETER2 166]

My biggest pet peeve of all the sims .., no real pilots have ever set up a default viewpoint! Yet this camera system is truly the best ( minus vibration and head motion I wish we had on touchdown) ... better view point and perspective than even X-Plane . So yes you can see over the panel now by raising your height , kick it in CTRL ALT 1 for example and keep it ... remember on a real jet like I fly I can not see the PFD either! This copilot calls out speed deviation and sink rate to me on final ... so I make views that my joystbuttons will pop to like PFD lower view ,, MFD , FMS etc etc ... but yes don’t sit like a toddler anymore !! 

[ba747heavy 9]

There is so much wrong with the POV (more appropriate, the Field of View) system in every FS that has ever existed, but default camera points are not one of them. Change them, save them, move on with life.

Does it bother anyone that objects in the sim appear too big or too small all the time? Do you real pilots think that landing in the simulator is sometimes harder than real life? From what I've seen with people with triple monitor setups, does it look like the side views on the non-primary displays are warped or at the very least the angle of things relative to the main monitor is wrong? Do you wonder why all of that is? It's because we are used to seeing things in real life, and we can intrinsically understand the objects size and infer speed from that information. In FS, zero care is given to help pilots set their sim up so that your field of view is correct. The stuff out the window, and even in the cockpit, is just scaled wrong.

This sim should have looked at iRacing and other racing sims on how FOV should actually be done. In racing sims they obsess over FOV for their setups because with a properly set up FOV, sim racers can spot their braking points easier, know how close a car really is, etc. The sim needs to know the width of your monitor(s), how far your head position from the monitor(s), and if you have multiple monitors, the angle that those monitors are from the display in front of you along with the bezel width. With that information the sim can scale the objects appropriately. When applied to MSFS, or flight sims in general, taxiing would feel more natural, buildings would look right, landing would give proper visual references, etc.

We've never had this option before and it bugs me. I get that for certain phases of flight it doesn't matter because we can zoom out and just see more stuff (honestly, most of them, because if the autopilot is on it doesn't much matter), but when you are in direct control of the plane it does matter. I get that simmers want to see more of the panel because if we did this the right way, you'd be seeing less of the panel than you'd probably like, including making the primary flight instruments less visible; this will be especially true on not ultra wide screens or anything less tall than a TV. We'd have to rely more on keyboard bindings and software like LINDA to map essential but hidden from the normal view buttons to a joystick or button box so that we don't have to zoom in/out or fiddle with the view during critical phases of flight, and that is no doubt a concern for a lot of simmers because they might lack the ability to acquire the hardware to make that happen.

However, you're fighting your entire life's worth of experience of how to maneuver in the real world, and that's why it should matter. At this point we have people who have built amazing cockpits with a lot of physical hardware, and they could really use this kind of thing instead of fiddling with it until it "looks right". I'd love the ability to map a camera to use during takeoff and landings that is a proper FOV.  At least give people who care about it the option.

[hangar 661]

This issue has been a thing for a long time, and the purest solution is to just set up custom cockpit views.

That's what I've always done in the past and I'm doing it now, and in fact as far as the MS series is concerned, it's easier than ever before to accomplish (once you change the default keybinds for saving and loading the views to something easier).

I move it closer so I can read better, a tad higher...and then the most important thing to understand here is about the zoom level. The zoom level which was set when you "saved" the custom view also gets saved with the view...so make certain to check your zoom level before you save your custom views as it will effect how much of the outside world you will see out your window frame. I like to make the zoom about .60 or slightly above (.62). But many of you will likely prefer .50-.55 im betting.

 

[FlyingInACessna 656]

4 hours ago, SierraHotel said:

Not a Cessna, Robin only. Re the sim, I just click up on my 's and I'm in the perfect position. As per my streams.

Ah yep but you have to click up. That part gets annoying very fast when I look sideways and want my view to snap / reset back to the middle, because then there’s the added step of going up again, and it’s an imprecise science. That’s why I like having a custom view set as my default button.

[FlyingInACessna 656]

1 hour ago, hangar said:

This issue has been a thing for a long time, and the purest solution is to just set up custom cockpit views.

That's what I've always done in the past and I'm doing it now, and in fact as far as the MS series is concerned, it's easier than ever before to accomplish (once you change the default keybinds for saving and loading the views to something easier).

I move it closer so I can read better, a tad higher...and then the most important thing to understand here is about the zoom level. The zoom level which was set when you "saved" the custom view also gets saved with the view...so make certain to check your zoom level before you save your custom views as it will effect how much of the outside world you will see out your window frame. I like to make the zoom about .60 or slightly above (.62). But many of you will likely prefer .50-.55 im betting.

 

Exactly. I changed the default key binds to match X-Plane (instead of alt - #, it’s now just each num pad number is its own view). I also have two views linked to my joystick buttons - one to custom view 1 (cockpit reset), and one to the FMC / GPS etc. because those are my most commonly used views. The rest I just have to push a num pad button to reach.

[WestAir 2,522]

3 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

So there is no "actual POV".. just personal preference.

I really, really hate to "actually..." someone, especially someone who always gives great advice on these forums, but, the major transport category aircraft usually have a mandated viewing angle / position. For instance: the airbus has three balls (1 red and 2 white) on the center support column between the front windows. You line those up so that they're even with your eyes. (The red ball should completely cover the white ball if you are in the proper position).

This is all in response to a 727 that was hit by a C172 in San Diego and crashed. The crew couldn't see the Cessna because they each had their own seat positions that didn't give them a proper view, and so the NTSB recommended a unified "viewing angle."

Try it in MSFS.

Edited August 26, 2020 by WestAir

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

21 hours ago, robert young said:

Here we go again. Nyxx's intolerance of views that don't match his own. Really Nyxx!

You may need to step back and look at your delivery. I have given you some hard flack as well. I'll admit that. 

I'll be blunt for a second....sorry if this is too harsh but every post you make about some part of the flight simulator game, you come off as this holier than though know it all complaining about things. It's almost as if you are trying to show how much you know. 

This is the same thing, you literally wrote 4 long paragraphs about a camera view point when in reality, any person can change their camera. It truly isn't a big deal. 

You're one of the few on this website who actually backs up their opinions with educated information and experience. Because of this I have read every one of your posts in their entirety. 

All I'm saying is take a step back and ask yourself if EVERY facet of this sim needs a thesis as to how it could be better and it's terrible right now.

Or, put your money where your mouth is and start building some payware airplanes or get down an sorry and fix the sim the best way you can given what you have in front of you.

Just sayin...

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

12 minutes ago, WestAir said:

I really, really hate to "actually..." someone, especially someone who always gives great advice on these forums, but, the major transport category aircraft usually have a mandated viewing angle / position. For instance: the airbus has three balls (1 red and 2 white) on the center support column between the front windows. You line those up so that they're even with your eyes. (The red ball should completely cover the white ball if you are in the proper position).

This is all in response to a 727 that was hit by a C172 in San Diego and crashed. The crew couldn't see the Cessna because they each had their own seat positions that didn't give them a proper view, and so the NTSB recommended a unified "viewing angle."

Try it in MSFS.

Yeah the one in our CRJs suck....

Recommended viewpoint doesn't mean anything...

What works for each pilot is different. That's why seats move in all sorts of directions.

[robert young 2,897]

2 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

You may need to step back and look at your delivery. I have given you some hard flack as well. I'll admit that. 

I'll be blunt for a second....sorry if this is too harsh but every post you make about some part of the flight simulator game, you come off as this holier than though know it all complaining about things. It's almost as if you are trying to show how much you know. 

This is the same thing, you literally wrote 4 long paragraphs about a camera view point when in reality, any person can change their camera. It truly isn't a big deal. 

You're one of the few on this website who actually backs up their opinions with educated information and experience. Because of this I have read every one of your posts in their entirety. 

All I'm saying is take a step back and ask yourself if EVERY facet of this sim needs a thesis as to how it could be better and it's terrible right now.

Or, put your money where your mouth is and start building some payware airplanes or get down an sorry and fix the sim the best way you can given what you have in front of you.

Just sayin...

Fair points on the delivery. But I've restricted myself to only two main subjects. The flight modelling and how they relate to controls, and views. I agree that the views are not earth shatteringly important. The reason I write what you feel are long paragraphs is because rather than say things like "This is garbage", or "rubbish" or other similar but unexplained views written by plenty of others on many subjects, I feel an obligation to back up those views with rational explanations. I always try to give a solid reason for what some describe as negativity.

I've made extremely positive statements about aspects of this product. But only my negative points tend to be seized upon. Two or three posters in particular seem to have made it their purpose to track things I say and either misunderstand what I've written or just take offence on someone else's behalf. There are plenty of other posters with whom I've had stimulating and civilised discussions who don't agree with me. That's what a forum is for - the exchange of differing views.

I don't much comment on things outside of my knowledge. 

I've already said several times that I'm working hard to fix some things that relate to what I've been discussing, but it will take time.

[robert young 2,897]

14 hours ago, LHookins said:

Actually the 3D models have an origin point which was not determined with an eye point in mind.  The default eye point is an offset from this origin point, as is pretty much everything else in the aircraft. 

That was what I was trying to explain, but you explained it better. However some models have an eye point offset baked in.