36 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Substitute "many addon developers" for "People" and you're spot on.

Well, that's anything but true, at least not across the board. Here is some direct factual information for you.

1. Aerosoft and some other developers are assisting with the development of the SDK, and doing so at the invitation of MS/Asobo. This is public knowledge and has been for quite some time.

2. The reason that certain developers were invited to work with MS/Asobo is because they realize that it's always been (at least in the 40 years I've been in the flight sim world) the third party developers that pushed base flight simulators to heights not previously considered possible and in some cases not even thought about.  Third party development is not only good for the base sim, it also adds to it's longevity. Take a look at FSX and then look at third party developers offered for FSX - it's a night and day difference, and FSX continued to be a mainstay sim for much longer than anyone thought it would.  Someone is happy with default, GREAT!  Someone wants to enjoy some truly high end stuff, GREAT!  Once again I'll say that flight sim is many different things to many different people.

3. True, some smaller developers are currently left out of the loop and are complaining about it.  Well, the loop isn't want they think it is, and I can't go into detail about that.  All I can say is that the SDK has to be written, and some parts of that is not even implemented in the sim itself.  There is a tremendous amount of work taking place behind the scenes between some third party developers and MS/Asobo and we will all benefit greatly from this.

Now, I know you guys don't consider and despite the fact that it's self-defeating some of you may not even care about the fact that funding (money) is what drives this engine, and right now Microsoft and some third party developers are investing heavily in the future for us all.  Now, of course, MS has invested the most and they have to hit a pretty high number to recoup what they've already invested in MSFS.  But third party developers like Aerosoft are bleeding cash right now as they work with MS/Asobo to get some things done that, just like with past base sims (including P3D), MS/Asobo never considered when they were building the sim that you guys see now.  The benefits of this investment circles back to you guys, because without a market the money for research and development goes away and you're left with whatever there is.

 

Edited September 1, 20205 yr by DaveCT2003

 

2 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

The TBM 930 flies nicely. Does it perform like the real one? I have no idea coz I don't own the real one. I can fly it from A to B, using proper procedures. Not all of the stuff in the G3X works, and the ATC is at times buggy, but for version 1.0 Microsoft hit it out of the ball park. 

Well, they didn't exactly hit it out of the ballpark with the engine modeling for the TBM, Caravan, and King Air.

Apparently it's a direct copy from FSX's turboprop model, which means Asobo is either slow to improve it (it was mentioned throughout the Alpha), or they're just relying on 3rd party devs to do the heavy lifting.

I like flying the TBM, but I have to ignore the engine performance, because I'm used to better modeling in other sims. Here's a thread about it:

 

 

The other day I did a short IFR hop on the TBM 930. Everything worked out nicely: finally got my sensitivities dialed in and managed to stay on the centerline during the take off roll. Flew through a few fluffy clouds, hit some light air turbulence along the way. 

Punched my approach procedure into the G3X - the plane followed the procedure like a train on rails, even got cleared to the appropriate altitudes by the default ATC. Hit the right speeds during the approach. Put her down nicely on the runway....but then the whole sim crashed to desktop coz I ran out of memory. Ha ha. Still I had a lot of fun. 

Do you seriously think I'm sitting around comparing engine parameters to the real thing? No, sorry, I'm having fun and enjoying this plane. 

I read the other thread with all the chest-beating and bloviating by "real world pilots" - it's like a bunch of marines sitting around complaining about Call of Duty Modern Warfare (as I've said before)

I'm sure in 5 years Milviz will bring out a killer turboprop with all the bells and whistles. Good luck with the wait!

Ricardo41, you're missing a point here. If the flight sim developer creates a good engine in the default flight model, then we get better payware models sooner because the 3rd party devs don't have to build basic features from scratch. It also means we wouldn't get a dozen different versions of how a popular engine like the PT-6 family operates. 

Meanwhile, we can agree to disagree on what a "basic feature" should be in a flight sim. I won't try to tell you what you should or shouldn't enjoy in the sim, it's fine by me if you enjoy it. As for me, I paid for it like everyone else, and have an opinion about it.

4 hours ago, Gilandred said:

Just curious, but is that even legal to essentially repackage a default aircraft and sell it?

MS is fully aware of this (or, at least, they should be...) so i'm guessing that would be a yes...

I don't mind if a lot of people are thrilled with the gamepad controls and the view of the plane's stabilizers from outside. The main thing is that there is beauty and pleasure.

2 hours ago, CJ1045 said:

Think you are exactly the flight simmer i was talking about. The huge number of new people coming the MSFS 2020 will expect the game to be fixed as all their other games are fixed. The community here seems to be living in another world where the main developer does not fix their game. I think MS/Asobo will make the changes.

CJ

Think of it this way, by buying the game you paid for the 4 years of development so far. To keep things running the next 10 years they need to extract more money out of you and for this there's the marketplace. They definitely shouldn't discourage people from buying stuff (including 3rd party developers from creating stuff) by trying to "perfect" the default planes/airports etc much beyond the basics. Is there anyone who hasn't bought the game because the default A320 just isn't good enough?

2 hours ago, Madscooter said:

Think of it this way, by buying the game you paid for the 4 years of development so far. To keep things running the next 10 years they need to extract more money out of you and for this there's the marketplace. They definitely shouldn't discourage people from buying stuff (including 3rd party developers from creating stuff) by trying to "perfect" the default planes/airports etc much beyond the basics. Is there anyone who hasn't bought the game because the default A320 just isn't good enough?

Or they could improve the default planes to the point they are the best out there and then release add-on packs of other planes, helicopters etc that people flock to buy as they know that MS/Asobo make the best planes and make a ton of money from the add-on plane packs. Same goes for scenery/airports etc.

 

CJ

Not going back, going back. How about... Never left. I have 3 sims running side by side and choose the one that suits me for the moment. P3d or Xplane are my workhorses for Delta Virtual and or Vatsim. MSFF2020 for some casual flying on days off of Virtual Airlines. 😉

23 hours ago, Mike T said:

Well I guess that's that....will the last person out please turn out the lights?

Turn out your lights, but mine will remain on.  Seriously, try and be an adult.

Edited September 1, 20205 yr by MrBitstFlyer

12 hours ago, LosGenero said:

Default planes are Default planes. Build simple way. I´m waiting PMDG 747 series and bug ironing, before I buy MSFS 2020. I want to get out and fly, not tweak the sim hours and hours, like it was in FSX, X-Plane etc

I purchased MSFS on 18 August. I set 'ULTRA' in settings - not touched anything since.  

A few of the default aircraft are good and fly well.

9 hours ago, BMW969 said:

Don't dissolve planes in the landscape. The surrounding world is of a different level.  It cannot be denied.

But the planes there are primitive.. and decent models to wait for a very long time. In MFS, you can enjoy landscapes, clouds, lighting, but not working in the cockpit.

Several of the stock aircraft have good models and fly well.

7 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Quote:

"ow is the best time ever in the world of flight simulation. There are so many options available! From Microsoft Flight Simulator X, Lockheed Martin’s Prepar3D versions 4 and 5, Laminar Research’s X-Plane, and the new FS2020. You can even have all 5 simulators on the same PC and enjoy the best of all worlds! It will take time for our industry to evolve to the FS2020 platform, and Flight1 will take it one step at a time. Please check back often for any news or product releases regarding FS2020."

If you think that those can coexist, without MSFS 2020 severely cannibalizing the user base of the other 4, then I cannot help you. MSFS 2020 is currently "the best of all worlds."

I have P3d V5 with almost every A2A aircraft installed, but I haven't loaded any of them since MSFS 2020 was released.  The lighting, weather and worldwide scenery in MSFS is so good,  I have no desire to be back in P3D.  

7 hours ago, Madscooter said:

I highly doubt it, why would they? Besides the most critical bugs, there's actually little incentive to start improving them, let alone to near perfection. Casual gamers do not care/notice and more serious simmers are waiting for 3rd party study level add-ons to appear on the marketplace. Therefore there's simply no reason for Asobo to use their resources on "perfecting" default planes.

Unfortunately I would have to agree with you. But. Asobo and Microsoft did sell us a super deluxe version at twice (I think)the cost of the basic sim. Is it not too far fetched to ask for some decent planes? I’m not asking for A2A or hot-start quality but for the extra cost a lot of us paid should they not be better that they are? I’m really hopeful the defaults get better soon. Seems like the sim was rushed a little to get out to market and I do realize there are going to be some initial issues, after all this sim is pushing the boundaries like we’ve never seen. I’m just hoping it will get more refined as it ages. 
  Even with its issues I’m still glad it has been released. At least we finally have it , even if it’s not perfect. Now don’t get me started on VR.

Get the whole world... and you're STILL asking for more?????  Sheesh...