23 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Jokes appart, I wouldn't really mind if they went subscription-based, provided the update rate was increased...

Well, there's the rub, eh? Laminar couldn't keep the monthly subscription meter ticking over without a constant drip of upgrades, which hasn't been their style. Their style is more like one big update a year, like the G1000 or Vulkan/Metal.

A subscription model could work if they partnered with enough 3rd party devs so we'd get free payware-quality aircraft models and airports on a regular basis with a subscription. But that doesn't seem likely. 

35 minutes ago, jcomm said:

And they also offer a Tesla with it !

Jokes appart, I wouldn't really mind if they went subscription-based, provided the update rate was increased...

I was considering the xp10 mobile sub while I was sailing.

Then I did a quick calc at $7 a month for the 3 years Ive been using xp11 desktop ... $250 ... and decided that was just ridiculous.

especially when that is for such horrible horrible scenery.

So I just downloaded a free sodoku instead.

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

And they also offer a Tesla with it !

Jokes appart, I wouldn't really mind if they went subscription-based, provided the update rate was increased...

Would be the end of simming for me, i hate subscription model, draining money out of your acct, a little here a little there. I have none.

9 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

I have none.

Well - a lot of people have this knee-jerk reaction when they hear "subscription" - but really I don´t see why? It really depends if you would pay MORE with the subscription than with a one-time payment. And here are some other reasons why I would prefer a subscription:

• You could cancel anytime - if you loose interest, get short on money, whatever reason. You only pay when you use it. Your one-time-payment is lost forever.
• It drives the company to constantly improve and maintain their product. Otherwise they could just ease on development, cashing in with a new version when people are curious (and can´t really try before buy).

The current model is really more expensive and less flexible for the user - so I doubt LR would go subscription. Just imagine how much money they would loose in a situation like this where a lot of people flock over to MSFS? Right now it doesn´t cost them one single cent. Everyone leaving has already paid 59.99. If all these people would cancel their subscription...

Cheers, Jan

 

30 minutes ago, Janov said:

Well - a lot of people have this knee-jerk reaction when they hear "subscription" - but really I don´t see why? It really depends if you would pay MORE with the subscription than with a one-time payment. And here are some other reasons why I would prefer a subscription:

• You could cancel anytime - if you loose interest, get short on money, whatever reason. You only pay when you use it. Your one-time-payment is lost forever.
• It drives the company to constantly improve and maintain their product. Otherwise they could just ease on development, cashing in with a new version when people are curious (and can´t really try before buy).

The current model is really more expensive and less flexible for the user - so I doubt LR would go subscription. Just imagine how much money they would loose in a situation like this where a lot of people flock over to MSFS? Right now it doesn´t cost them one single cent. Everyone leaving has already paid 59.99. If all these people would cancel their subscription...

Cheers, Jan

 

Not knee Jerk just common sense. In fact one lady a photographer, had her win 7 machine crash, had to get new machine with win 10, none of her software worked, she simply could not afford the monthly subscriptions for all the new. I keep tabs on my account, this ease of access,  convenience is making people spend money they normally wouldnt and im not getting caught up in it, good for business not for us.

For a while, I paid the developer subscription for P3D as it was actually cheaper than paying the $200 license every release, and each new major version didn't offer too much incentive to pay the upgrade cost, especially since I could cancel and continue at any time when I wanted to use or develop the sim. However, LM offer very little out-of-the-box for the sim, and it always required purchasing lots of expensive addons which made the sim much more expensive that it would initially seem.

I have several professional subscriptions going that I absolutely need for work, but I loathe paying them. Photoshop is a prime example, there has been nothing in any of the updates over the years that has made it any better, in fact each update changes things a bit just to make me have to readjust my muscle memory and adds more bloat. Change for change sake, and I really regret losing my old standalone copy of Photoshop from 2006 or so. I don't use Creative Cloud as it just gets in my way, and I'd love just to download a version and keep it until something in a newer version takes my interest.

I wouldn't say I'm completely against subscriptions, but it has to offer something of value. Some subscription services offer access to libraries, training materials and developer support with their products. If something is done right and I find myself getting value for it, I won't have a problem. I know a lot of my colleagues pay monthly for a very expensive license for 3DS Max (which MFS and P3D support officially), I instead opted for the open-source Blender, which is superb and the best piece of software I have on my computer and something that I actually happily pay a voluntary subscription (aka. monthly donation) to support further development . 

 

8 hours ago, Janov said:

Well - a lot of people have this knee-jerk reaction when they hear "subscription" - but really I don´t see why? It really depends if you would pay MORE with the subscription than with a one-time payment.

Look at the economics with Laminar's history of upgrades. We get a major change in the sim every 4 years with a new number version. Divide the current one-time cost of the sim at $60 USD over 48 months, and a subscription would cost $1.25 USD per month. Not really worth it for Laminar.

Even if we consider significant updates during the current version like the G1000 and Vulkan/Metal as two separate "versions" that could have been new releases, we end up with only $3.75 a month as a subscription model, compared to the one-time $60 purchase. 

Laminar as a small developer just doesn't release major new features often enough to charge a $5 or $10 per month subscription and make it a good value proposition for the end-user. 

 

7 hours ago, tonywob said:

I have several professional subscriptions going that I absolutely need for work, but I loathe paying them. Photoshop is a prime example, there has been nothing in any of the updates over the years that has made it any better, in fact each update changes things a bit just to make me have to readjust my muscle memory and adds more bloat. Change for change sake, and I really regret losing my old standalone copy of Photoshop from 2006 or so. I don't use Creative Cloud as it just gets in my way, and I'd love just to download a version and keep it until something in a newer version takes my interest.

Ugh, Photoshop. Since I'm retired now, I still use the standalone CS5 version I picked up years ago. There hasn't been any earth-shaking improvement in image editing over the years.

If I was still working as a commercial photographer and graphic designer, I'd use the current subscription Photoshop because I could write it off as a business expense. Tax write-off is how many of these expensive software subscriptions like 3ds Max ($200/month, yikes!) make sense for some users.

I've said this before, but I wouldn't mind a subscription based "Plus" edition of X-Plane if it offered advantages like rollback to any release version, anytime Apt.dat updates from the Gateway or something similar.

No subscription for me, I would rather fly in Flightgear...

But yes maybe some people would be fine for a "Plus" version with streaming scenery alike FS2020.

How's XP11 flight modeling lately?

Do (default) airplanes still fall out of the sky like a brick when you cut the power during flare?

And how are floatplane physics on the water these days?

Edited October 3, 20205 yr by Pilot Ike

1 hour ago, Pilot Ike said:

How's XP11 flight modeling lately?

Do (default) airplanes still fall out of the sky like a brick when you cut the power during flare?

And how are floatplane physics on the water these days?

When was the last time you tried them? these had lots of loving in 11.40, and all the aircraft specific changes need "experimental flight model" enabling

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

When was the last time you tried them? these had lots of loving in 11.40, and all the aircraft specific changes need "experimental flight model" enabling

I think it was "pre-experimental flight model" that I saw this. I understand this has been rectified now?

And what about the floatplane physics? Last time I tried it the Cessna 172 rocked like crazy on the waves.

3 hours ago, Pilot Ike said:

How's XP11 flight modeling lately?

-Ground handling is not perfect but considerably better than 11.00 where any landing was like on ice and you would swerve off the runway.

-Experimental flight model is still experimental, nothing much happening with this.

-Flight model only models a basic shell around the aircraft.  It does not model real world upper and lower wind currents and updrafts over mountains etc.

-Wind affects on flight modeling are sadly lacking.  Austin has said in a recent interview this may get an overhaul, but who knows when that will come.

-There is no head movement modeled, you must get a addon like XP Realistic to get any feel for forces and movement.

1 hour ago, Pilot Ike said:

I think it was "pre-experimental flight model" that I saw this. I understand this has been rectified now?

And what about the floatplane physics? Last time I tried it the Cessna 172 rocked like crazy on the waves.

How are those helicopters in FS2020?  

And the crash physics?  Control surfaces break off?  Gear up landings?

Edited October 3, 20205 yr by GoranM

10 minutes ago, Greazer said:

There is no head movement modeled, you must get a addon like XP Realistic to get any feel for forces and movement.

I was going to just let you troll (ie.  Be yourself), but I HAD to address this one.  You obviously haven't heard of Cinema Verite.  Check it out...if you dare load up X-Plane again.