My view on MSFS now, 2 months after release

[wthomas33065 994]

2 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Well that's false, suggest you go to your local FBO and get some simulator hours in a RedBird unit running P3D

And I suggest you learn to read my post.  Notice I said ON THEIR OWN.  

My suggestion is that NONE of us have a certified FAA simulator sitting in our own living room, so it's ludicrous to come in and say well, XP11 is a sim, but MSFS is not.  Or P3D is a sim but MSFS is not.  

IT'S A GAME.  They all are.  Deal with it.  But when someone in an MSFS forum or hijacks a post to stir the pot it's annoying.  How many people here hop on over to a P3D or XPlane forum and start throwing grenades in their forums or hijacking their threads.  I don't go over to P3D, FSX or XP forums and start talking smack.  So why should anyone do it here.  It's called decorum, and I feel way too many people have forgotten what that is.

So let's try and all enjoy it as a game and stop with the "my dogs better than your dog" routine.  Let's enjoy the game, and if you need help by all means, ask for it and we'll try to help you.  But if the only purpose you have for being in this forum is to throw a temper tantrum over what MSFS is NOT, then take your garbage elsewhere.  
 

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

27 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

So let's try and all enjoy it as a game and stop with the "my dogs better than your dog" routine.  Let's enjoy the game, and if you need help by all means, ask for it and we'll try to help you.  But if the only purpose you have for being in this forum is to throw a temper tantrum over what MSFS is NOT, then take your garbage elsewhere.  
 

Comparisons are at the heart of forum discussions, you are requesting that human nature be only the glass is half full outlook. The glass may be 3/4 full to some but 1/4 full to others, maybe they think the apple juice was a bit too sugary. I cannot say a forum should only be about positive, and I don't think any mod really agrees with that perspective. I would say thicker skin is needed if people you don't even know posting to a forum is a distraction, then that is odd.

I personally get what you mean by the negativity can get old, but it doesn't affect me, it literally has ZERO emotional effect either way to my well being. The only thing that does sometimes get out of hand in here is when people get so combative when you express an opinion. I mean should we lie about our opinions, I don't know, that doesn't really make sense. This isn't a sales pitch, we aren't trying to sell the simulator to anyone. I feel like you guys are like sales managers jumping down everyone trying to force everyone to never say anything negative, doesn't really make sense to me at all, possibly need PHD behavior clinical psychologist to explain it all to me. Maybe one day I will ask, Jordan Peterson anyone?

 

 

[Will Fly For Cheese 1,710]

I Follow Roads.

IFR

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Will Fly For Cheese

[ShawnG 1,823]

57 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "ON THEIR OWN" ... but beyond FAA certification, P3D is used to train fighter pilots around the globe and more (hence the Avatar mode) ... may I suggest you read the P3D SDK/PDK there is much in there clearly aimed at high end simulation such as DIS, Multi-channel, genlock, etc. etc.

P3d is not FAA certified on its own as a piece of software.  That requires specific hardware in conjunction with the software to achieve.  Your photos of the commercial simulator would qualify, but running it on your pc with a joystick/yoke does not.  I’ll leave him to defend whatever point he was trying to make about them all being games, but a sizable chunk of p3d users are not really using it for actual training, despite the eula, if I can be forgiven for toeing over a verboten line in the sand here.  Also iirc the version used for fighter pilot training is not available to the public, yes?

[scotchegg 4,186]

2 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

It's like some of you can't admit, there are some issues in MSFS for fear of something ...

*sigh* Again, can you provide even one example of anyone, anywhere, ever seriously refusing to admit there are some issues in MSFS? There are over 130,000 posts in this forum, so it shouldn’t be too hard.

This claim keeps getting rolled out every time one of these threads that starts with a hyperbolic claim, in this case ‘it’s just a scenery simulator that hasn’t had any bug fixes in 2 months’, goes through its inevitable motions of first counter ‘that’s clearly untrue / trolling’, second counter ‘you just can’t accept there are problems / you’re flaming / suppressing / acting like the Proud Boys (on a side note equating people disagreeing with a hyperbolic claim about Cessna 172s with literal pitchfork-wielding white supremacists is one of the most extreme suggestions I’ve ever seen on this site), third counter ‘nobody’s flaming, we’re just disagreeing / who said there are no problems’ etc. etc.

So tiring and unproductive though it is, as you have once again made the claim, I once again ask you to show your working.

Edited October 16, 2020 by scotchegg

[marsman2020 1,310]

I probably would not have purchased the sim at launch if I had known about the actual issues and Asobo's limited understanding of aviation/aeronautics.  Alas I was taken in by the marketing. 

I'm trying to enjoy it as much as I can, because I'm stuck mostly inside during a pandemic, and even in the current state it's at least somewhat enjoyable as a game.  But not as a simulation.

Many of the aircraft can't even be trimmed for straight and level flight.  They display long period phugoid pitch oscillations that don't damp out, or that even increase over time.  Real aircraft (except maybe some military aircraft with fly by wire) have positive dynamic stability coefficients such that an oscillation like that will damp out over time.  This is basic aircraft stability & control that we learned in our junior year courses for aeronautical engineering. 

Not even getting into the yaw axis, or the roll axis, literally considering how the aircraft behave in a single DOF, this already fails at being near a simulator as-delivered.

Then you slap on an AP system that makes its corrections slowly - and on a similar increment of time to said long period oscillations.  The AP adjustments couple in with the period of the phugoid and you end up with this terrible AP behavior everyone sees.

As a junior in college many years ago I would have been embarrassed to ship anything that purported to be a "flight simulator" that had this set of issues present.  And yet we have it, and we are 4 updates in, and I see no indication the Asobo is capable of fixing it, or even understanding the problem.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Well we have PMDG experimenting towards possibly working on something (didn't check latest rumors or where they were at), and we'll just have to hope they or someone else can get it tweaked better.
 

[rtodepart 761]

the more i read some replys the more I NOTICE how some people want almost everyone to start a negative thread about FS2020 and if you dont agree with something negative then you are WRONG OR BLIND ...... 

I was going to quit trying to understand this but my current wife opened my eyes and told me "every since i known you you always talk about the same crazy situations  with every new simulator ,stop trying and enjoy what the new release has " 

[canuk_22 24]

2 months in and I have not looked at it in 6 weeks, busy elsewhere and that sums it up.

[pmb 5,137]

3 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I'm curious, why do some of you get so emotionally involved over negative MSFS posts? 

Cheers, Rob.

These threads are repeating in circles thus here is an answer from a former turn.

Kind regards, Michael

 

[Manny 1,293]

Some folks haven't been socialized much and let out on the street. 🙂

 

I haven't flown any on my p3D home Cockpit. been flying the MSFS hooked to my living room 4K TV on my new PC I built for MSFS2020 but with a and old AMD Video card. Waiting to buy a 20GB 3080 Card or something close to it from AMD if they have one. Using 18 year old sidewinder Joystick. Enjoying the A320 Neo with the Mods. 

Do I really need the Aeroosoft A320?

The only irritant I have with the MSFS is the CTD. I was flying half way from CYVR to KPDX and boom CTD

Edited October 17, 2020 by Manny

[wthomas33065 994]

I'm done with the negativity on this thread and being compared to a white supremacist and murderous crusader.  

Have fun.  

Edited October 17, 2020 by wthomas33065

[eslader 1,783]

1 hour ago, marsman2020 said:

Asobo's limited understanding of aviation/aeronautics. 

I'm not sure many coders of any sim ever have had a full understanding of aeronautics. That's what the non-coding pilot staff members are for. I mean, it's not like the programmers making racing sims are Formula 1 drivers in their spare time.

And it feels to me more like Asobo is trying to find a balance between realism and "feeling real," which in the world of computers can be two different things. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll make things more realistic. I've had a number of projects in my life where I've been an expert in what the finished product should look like, but had one heck of a time actually getting there. Ask me about woodworking some time. 😉

They're trying to build a next-gen sim when the previous sim that they have to reference would have been 5 generations old if development had continued. In other words, they're trying to build an SR-71 by extrapolating from the Wright Flyer. They can get there, but it's not going to happen overnight.

 

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

10 minutes ago, eslader said:

I'm not sure many coders of any sim ever have had a full understanding of aeronautics. That's what the non-coding pilot staff members are for. I mean, it's not like the programmers making racing sims are Formula 1 drivers in their spare time.

 

There are a few in the industry, but it's only a handful, it is a bit of a savant type problem. I hope you are correct sir, the only issue I have is some of the bugs I see in the SDK are such simple fixes, it makes me doubt that the software roadmap planners are really in-line with the sim guys, seems like they are just picking things to fix as they see fit. It makes no sense at all (worse than nonsense) that the "shoot me to the moon" ALT-CLICK bug is still not fixed.

[rtodepart 761]

1 hour ago, marsman2020 said:

Asobo's limited understanding of aviation/aeronautics

I personally know plenty and when i say plenty i mean Lots of people who had coded for a level d simulator that have 0 clues of anything aviation related .

The good thing is that in the real world we as a pilot dont judge the quality of a simulator based on who did the programing part , If that was the case than airlines/employers  would had a hard time getting us to jump in that closed weird piece of FINE EQUIPMENT that had build some solid confidence to later jump in the real thing and keep it in the air .