1 minute ago, cavaricooper said:

@KenG

Ken, the saying usually includes another F word... If it F____, flies or floats- lease it!

😉

C

I was keeping it rated G. 😁

1 hour ago, KenG said:

For a Level D Full Flight Simulator you are talking in the ballpark of $14 million USD. 

And don't forget how much it costs to run the things. The electric bill alone would give most people a heart attack.

On 10/28/2020 at 10:00 AM, Armchair Pilot said:

Zibo and flybywiresims have shown how powerful some members of the community are when they work together.

I am constantly amazed by the Zibo, what a fantastic gift to the community that is. Not only does he devote his time to making it better and better but real world 737 Captains and Training Captains (like FD2S) help by giving input and flying it on their YTCs. 

I look forward to MSFS answer to the Zibo and I feel the up and coming A320 mod is on its way there. The visual model looks great , the flight deck looks great but after I saw what this mod can do Im amazed. I sent a friend of mine whose an A320 Capt IRL and he said it looks fantastic, down to the displays showing data correctly (something the mod fixed). 

1 hour ago, cavaricooper said:

@KenG

Ken, the saying usually includes another F word... If it F____, flies or floats- lease it!

I am always amused by the number of people that expect a fully functional Garmin simulation in their $30 aircraft... in a $60 sim.  I on the other hand remember saving for months for my first Northstar Loran...

😉

C

I remember learning a long time ago that anything with the words "aviation" or "yachting" included eye watering expense. When you consider that some sophisticated airliner addons are 90+% close to system and procedural functions in real equivalents, and often fly around in scenery that is often far better quality than you often get in multi-million dollar high level simulators, it is remarkable what good value people are getting.

One of the reasons I am passionate about the way sim aircraft fly is that it doesn't matter how wonderful the designs and systems are, if an aircraft flies like a pig it is all but useless unless your idea of flying is pressing buttons and just doing navigation exercises.

The missing magic in most sims is the feel and the visceral connection between hands, feet, brain and the aircraft. A simple pattern/circuit in a sim C172 that could fly well and true is as rewarding as programming the slickest FMC. It's the last and most important piece in the sim jigsaw puzzle. The fact that you might be able to buy a complete sim for a thousandth of a cost of a Level D sim with all these qualities for use in your own home is amazing.

 

41 minutes ago, robert young said:

The missing magic in most sims is the feel and the visceral connection between hands, feet, brain and the aircraft. A simple pattern/circuit in a sim C172 that could fly well and true is as rewarding as programming the slickest FMC. It's the last and most important piece in the sim jigsaw puzzle.

And it's what's been missing from all of the previous sims. I stuck pretty much exclusively to complex airliners in FSX/P3d because the scenery - even Orbx/etc enhanced - sucked so badly that you just couldn't get immersed in the illusion. Felt a lot better at FL400. In this sim, I don't have access (as we all know) to a good complex airliner, but that's OK because flying a Cub through mountain passes looks better than it ever has. Once they get some of the feeling down better (less emphasis on artificial plane wiggles to simulate air movement) it's gonna be hands down the closest anyone will get to feeling like they're flying beyond renting time on a pro-level sim. And that will translate to the complex stuff as well, and make them even more stellar.

The future's looking bright.

 

54 minutes ago, robert young said:

I remember learning a long time ago that anything with the words "aviation" or "yachting" included eye watering expense. When you consider that some sophisticated airliner addons are 90+% close to system and procedural functions in real equivalents, and often fly around in scenery that is often far better quality than you often get in multi-million dollar high level simulators, it is remarkable what good value people are getting.

One of the reasons I am passionate about the way sim aircraft fly is that it doesn't matter how wonderful the designs and systems are, if an aircraft flies like a pig it is all but useless unless your idea of flying is pressing buttons and just doing navigation exercises.

The missing magic in most sims is the feel and the visceral connection between hands, feet, brain and the aircraft. A simple pattern/circuit in a sim C172 that could fly well and true is as rewarding as programming the slickest FMC. It's the last and most important piece in the sim jigsaw puzzle. The fact that you might be able to buy a complete sim for a thousandth of a cost of a Level D sim with all these qualities for use in your own home is amazing.

 

 

The Oracle Speaks!

I completely agree- FLIGHT FEEL IS WHERE IT COUNTS. I’ve said this in 100s of posts... which is why my RealAir, Alex Metzger and Bernt Stolle aircraft have always been near and dear to me.

The most sophisticated systems simulation without flight feel is a button pusher’s dream... while ones and zeros that fly, allow people to travel the footless halls of air, and reach out and touch the face of God.

@robert young would know...

C

22 minutes ago, cavaricooper said:

 

@robert young would know...

C

So agree with that. Flying patterns last night on a busy US airport, on Vatsim, with real weather, real phraseology, real procedures, checklist, charts, sure felt like im a proper simmer, sure felt as real as it gets. The sense of achievment you get when you back on the apron on one piece, is overwhelming. Specially if english isnt your first language, and no ATC asked you to repeat any transmissions. I feel like a proper serious simmer, and i really dont give a word not allowed if someone think otherwise 😄

And come on, a man so passionate about the hobby that he basically does what he used to do commercially, but now do it for free, will never cease to amaze me.. 

3 hours ago, KenG said:

Graham,

 Where do you get $8,000 from? For $8,000 you get a BATD with a generic single engine piston airplane running P3D or XPlane Pro. 

 For a FSTD Level 4 which is a Cockpit Procedure Trainer (CPT) the price jumps to between $700,000 to over $1 Million USD. 

 For a Level D Full Flight Simulator you are talking in the ballpark of $14 million USD. 

 Even a real GTN 750 will cost you around $30,000 USD new and installed or $15,000 for a green tag version (serviceable used.)

 $60 might get you a 30 minute Discovery flight and for $150 you might get an hour in something like an Archer. (Add another $45 for the CFI.) 

 Aviation is expensive. As the saying goes if it flies or floats its better to rent it. 

I was being nice and using the cheapest I could find that I would call a simulator 🙂

Graham

7 hours ago, LarryD said:

So what is this Garmin database you are referring to, and how did you install it in MSFS?  Just curious.

That reference is to the Garmin database in RXP GPS models in FSX, FSX SE, and P3D.

19 minutes ago, fppilot said:

That reference is to the Garmin database in RXP GPS models in FSX, FSX SE, and P3D.

The Garmin database in RXP is sourced from Jeppesen as is the Navigraph database that we use with MSFS. If you use the Navigraph data load into MSFS then you will be using data sourced from Jeppesen in the World Map and all the plane NAV systems in MSFS. This applies to all the default plane NAV systems and the current modded systems.

I was under the impression that Navigraph for MSFS was for FMC level aircraft, not for GA w/G1000 or G3000.

Edited October 29, 20205 yr by fppilot

Tell this to the PMDG, FSLabs, Toliss and Flight Factor boyfans and you might be right, OP

Edited October 29, 20205 yr by jbdbow1970

41 minutes ago, fppilot said:

I was under the impression that Navigraph for MSFS was for FMC level aircraft, not for GA w/G1000 or G3000.

No it replaces the default navblue data in the entire sim, though the errors with missing procedures is being addressed also by them/Asobo.

Some of the missing approaches is due to a coding issue for approaches that aren't actually associated with a runway (like LDA D, or VOR B - approaches with letters instead of runway numbers). This is a game-level issue that Navigraph works around for some approaches by manually renaming them for a runway that is most suitable - that's how they got approaches in to the game for Aspen, for example).

So it's a little of column A and a little of column B, but the short answer is that if you already have a Navigraph sub for P3D, then you can get the beta and drop it into MSFS and that'll make your life better. If you don't, you can get one for a month for like $5 and try it out, see what you think. I'm not 100% sure on the status of Asobo + NavBlue fixing this. NavBlue just provides the data to Asobo, then they code it for the sim, so really Asobo needs to implement that fix and I'm sure they will at some point if they haven't already.

Lastly, you're right, the flight planner UI isn't updated as far as I know to show the transitions, even though they can be shown by our Mod in the CJ4. This will be added to the G1000 and G3000 pretty soon also. But the default gauges don't show all transitions, nor does the flight planning UI. The data is there, but the code for gauges and the UI would need to be updated accordingly. 

Edited October 29, 20205 yr by cwburnett

On 10/29/2020 at 7:34 PM, cavaricooper said:

The Oracle Speaks!

I completely agree- FLIGHT FEEL IS WHERE IT COUNTS. I’ve said this in 100s of posts... which is why my RealAir, Alex Metzger and Bernt Stolle aircraft have always been near and dear to me.

The most sophisticated systems simulation without flight feel is a button pusher’s dream... while ones and zeros that fly, allow people to travel the footless halls of air, and reach out and touch the face of God.

@robert young would know...

C

Just get a glider's license in RW.

It costs the same as decent gaming rig + all the addons we have.

And one hour in the sky in the RW is worth hunderts of hours on VATSIM.

 

&

@sholay

Thanks for the tip.

C