Great example of Asobo trying to help resolve issues

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

11 minutes ago, JimBrown said:

Note that this is for the A320 only. Other planes will no doubt require different values.

Interesting... the Bonanza has:

headingPID = 2.0, 0.01, 1.2, 0.2, 1.0

Does anyone know how to adapt this fix?

[jspilot 17]

7 hours ago, sanh said:

Yes I know they are introducing annoying bugs but when the (i assume) CEO of Asobo is helping the A320 mod team fix the AP bug perhaps we should be a little more grateful 

References

Special thanks to Sebastian from Asobo for helping to diagnose the issue and come up with this temporary solution.

https://github.com/flybywiresim/a32nx/pull/2140

Wait so they update the game, release it without testing it, break the plane and we should be greatful for them fixing their mistake?....ok

I guess all that money I spent on the game was to guarantee each update would make the game less playable and support this CEO to get more money for his company but not a reliable game that works more often than not.  Some people are way more forgiving than I am I guess.

If the CEO wants my thanks he can get it by releasing updates that actually improve the game and builds on a solid foundation.  All these updates are doing is trying to fix previous issues and then making them worse.  Start releasing updates that are tested and ready and then I’ll thank the guy.

[JimBrown 596]

21 minutes ago, JimBrown said:

I had a quick look at the GitHub pull request for the fix. From what I can see, this is the change that fixed the issue:

In "A32NX/SimObjects/AirPlanes/Asobo_A320_NEO/ai.cfg",

From: headingPID = 2.0, 0.01, 2.0, 0.4, 3.0

To:      headingPID = 2.0, 0.5, 2.0, 0.025, 1.0

Note that this is for the A320 only. Other planes will no doubt require different values.

...jim

I should also note that, from what I can see, this does not fix the long roll out as it intercepts a new heading, it starts to roll out of the turn about 30 degrees before the new heading, taking ages to finish the turn. It only fixes the death spiral thing.

Someone please tell me I'm wrong. 😉

And, just for grins and giggles, I turned off the A320NX mod and made the above change to the default A320Neo ai.cfg file. Seems to have the same affect. Note: If you do this, I am NOT responsible for anything that may happen to your installation.

...jim

 

[wthomas33065 994]

1 minute ago, jspilot said:

Wait so they update the game, release it without testing it, break the plane and we should be greatful for them fixing their mistake?....ok

I guess all that money I spent on the game was to guarantee each update would make the game less playable and support this CEO to get more money for his company but not a reliable game that works more often than not.  Some people are way more forgiving than I am I guess.

If the CEO wants my thanks he can get it by releasing updates that actually improve the game and builds on a solid foundation.  All these updates are doing is trying to fix previous issues and then making them worse.  Start releasing updates that are tested and ready and then I’ll thank the guy.

They already stated that they are fixing it for the next release. 

If you are unhappy with the product, then you are free to get whatever legal remedy you have available in your country.  No one is stopping you.

Yes, some people are more forgiving than you, and BTW, the CEO never asked for your thanks.

However, some of us have dealt with software developers who never fix the bugs they have in the first place, or are unwilling to work with the fanbase of the product at all.

So yes, a CEO that is helping a developer who is developing a non-revenue generating add on for the product should be commended.  

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

8 minutes ago, JimBrown said:

I should also note that, from what I can see, this does not fix the long roll out as it intercepts a new heading, it starts to roll out of the turn about 30 degrees before the new heading, taking ages to finish the turn. It only fixes the death spiral thing.

Thanks for that!  I was attempting to apply this approach for the long rollout issue..  Without success, I might add.. 😉

[marsman2020 1,310]

5 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

So yes, a CEO that is helping a developer who is developing a non-revenue generating add on for the product should be commended.  

It's now gone beyond "non revenue generating" when the officially recommended fix (for now) in a banner at the top of the official MSFS forums is to go download a 3rd party mod.  The fact that the FlyByWire team can put their into their mod while Microsoft/Asobo spend 3 more weeks or whatever on a fix is directly helping to calm down the official forums and provide everyone with an interim work around.

[jspilot 17]

14 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

They already stated that they are fixing it for the next release. 

If you are unhappy with the product, then you are free to get whatever legal remedy you have available in your country.  No one is stopping you.

Yes, some people are more forgiving than you, and BTW, the CEO never asked for your thanks.

However, some of us have dealt with software developers who never fix the bugs they have in the first place, or are unwilling to work with the fanbase of the product at all.

So yes, a CEO that is helping a developer who is developing a non-revenue generating add on for the product should be commended.  

I am not asking for a refund or anything but the notion that we should be thanking a CEO who is responsible for what their company produces for fixing the issue is really laughable.  

I play American Truck Simulator a lot.  SCS software is a small outfit that has done an amazing job with a similar type of product.  There are MANY differences between the companies.

First, SCS releases state by state.  That’s a reasonable task.  Releasing the entire globe plus multiple airplanes was clearly way too much for ASOBO.  Imagine what could be if they focused on smaller areas and prioritized quality over quantity?

Second, SCS releases updates after they have been tested for weeks by actual users.  That makes sure they don’t cause more issues than create!

Third, they take on additional features of the game once they feel they are ready, they don’t do everything at once.  Look at what ASOBO is doing— trying to get real world weather, real life traffic, real world flyable airplanes with multiple flight dynamics and then trying to program it all so that it works smoothly.  It’s not realistic and worse yet, when they try and fix one aspect they break multiple others.

My point here is, yes there are worse companies than ASOBO but there far better too!  If ASOBO slowed down and focused on making key aspects of the game better( I define them as the autopilot, flight dynamics and weather) we’d all be better off!

Edited December 1, 2020 by jspilot

[Hyperfocal 186]

2 hours ago, MattNischan said:

We've conferred with Asobo also after FBW's report and got details on the issue, which confirmed our suspicions on the cause. Basically, under only a certain set of conditions the lateral nav PID will experience integral windup that will take an extremely long period to overcome, causing asymmetrical bank requests.

The temporary fix is to increase the integral gain to clear the error more quickly, and also lower the value at which it trips windup reset. This is a per plane setting, but they have confirmed a systemic fix will be shipping next update.

-Matt

Interesting. I saw the code change but couldn't decipher what the constants were controlling. Thank you for the explanation.

[wthomas33065 994]

27 minutes ago, jspilot said:

I am not asking for a refund or anything but the notion that we should be thanking a CEO who is responsible for what their company produces for fixing the issue is really laughable.  
 

And my point is they owed the FBW folks absolutely zero.  This was a freeware project, it was not "blessed" by the developer, and actually involves modifying copyrighted material.  So legally, the company could have just as easily sent them a cease and desist letter, instead of providing them a helping hand.

Yet they decided to help provide FBW folks a quick workaround while they work on the fix internally for the product.  So yeah, I do think a bit of thanks there is warranted on that front.  

If I fault them for anything, it was trying to maintain a 14 day update schedule.  I think that was too aggressive.  The scope of the patches and world updates alone dictated that you needed more than 14 days to fully test the changes.  Especially in the middle of a global pandemic in which global cases are on the rise.

They are moving from biweekly to monthly updates which I feel should improve the quality of each update.  I guess a wait and see attitude is warranted there.

Of course moving to monthly updates means that people will need to wait longer to get their issues addressed which requires increased patience.  Something that appears to be in short supply in this community.


 

Edited December 1, 2020 by wthomas33065

[jspilot 17]

42 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

And my point is they owed the FBW folks absolutely zero.  This was a freeware project, it was not "blessed" by the developer, and actually involves modifying copyrighted material.  So legally, the company could have just as easily sent them a cease and desist letter, instead of providing them a helping hand.

Yet they decided to help provide FBW folks a quick workaround while they work on the fix internally for the product.  So yeah, I do think a bit of thanks there is warranted on that front.  

If I fault them for anything, it was trying to maintain a 14 day update schedule.  I think that was too aggressive.  The scope of the patches and world updates alone dictated that you needed more than 14 days to fully test the changes.  Especially in the middle of a global pandemic in which global cases are on the rise.

They are moving from biweekly to monthly updates which I feel should improve the quality of each update.  I guess a wait and see attitude is warranted there.

Of course moving to monthly updates means that people will need to wait longer to get their issues addressed which requires increased patience.  Something that appears to be in short supply in this community.


 

The switch will make things worse if they don’t test the updates before releasing them.  They broke the A320 and released it without a functioning Autopilot.  A simple test flight of about 5 minutes would have revealed this problem( like the one I took before giving up.) Not testing the updates before releasing them is inexcusable!  They have a community right here that would be happy to do it!  Why they choose not to is absurd.

[Jetman67 517]

As I said in a prior topic, respect. Don't say anything you wouldn't say to a person face to face,this is the problem with online forums, I too am frustrated at times but respect these guys immensely compared to what we have had in the past.on occasion I have received a reply from the Devs when emailing support, that's never happened before.

[MattNischan 3,778]

Just now, jspilot said:

The switch will make things worse if they don’t test the updates before releasing them.  They broke the A320 and released it without a functioning Autopilot.  A simple test flight of about 5 minutes would have revealed this problem( like the one I took before giving up.) Not testing the updates before releasing them is inexcusable!  They have a community right here that would be happy to do it!  Why they choose not to is absurd.

Asobo and Microsoft actually have a reasonably sized testing team. I think it's just luck of the draw, in this case.

If you polled all of the thousand+ users on our Discord the number of folks who experienced this issue was actually not anywhere near ubiquitous, and it actually only occurred during some specific circumstances, which you must have hit. Software like this is just a nightmare to test: there is basically an unbounded set of operating conditions and outcomes.

I think if you asked them if they needed even more testing resources, I think they'd be the first to agree. But the suggestion I keep reading that they just don't bother testing and toss stuff out there is just mean-spirited and factually incorrect, even if coming from a place of understandable frustration.

-Matt

[CFIJose 5,485]

5 hours ago, Steve Dra said:

By far the funniest movie that ever graced the big screen.  I can't tell you how many times I've watched it....memorized ever line...and like I mentioned in another post when we got to talking about Teri Garr....there is not a bad movie that Marisa Tomei' is in.  She literally stole this show with her lines and her dead-on Brooklyn accent. 🙂

Loved her story about the deer hunting trip when Vinnie asked her about his pants selection!🤣  "BAM"  LOL

I've seen it maybe 50 times.

Sorry to get off the topic.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

1 hour ago, wthomas33065 said:

However, some of us have dealt with software developers who never fix the bugs they have in the first place, or are unwilling to work with the fanbase of the product at all.

 

 

As someone working in IT for a software company I can tell you that even "in house" we have that issues with our own developers. Typically developers as a profession seem to have the following common traits:

1. an aversion to writing documentation, detailed help or manuals  ( "it is not programming so not my job" )

2. a tendency to prioritise fiddling with new shiny features over fixing bugged existing ones -  presumably as new features are more fun than tracking down obscure bugs

3. a very annoying tendency to ignore bugs completely because they are working on "new code" which does things differently and will fix the issue,  even though the "new code" is already 6 months behind schedule and shows no sign of ever seeing the light of day

 

WHICH is no excuse for Asobo, just saying this sort of thing is actually pretty common across the industry.

[bendead 1,085]

3 hours ago, MattNischan said:

but they have confirmed a systemic fix will be shipping next update.

So three weeks to wait...