10 hours ago, cavaricooper said:

Every day almost, I pull the latest Dev mod from the brilliant folks at FBW for the A320 Neo.  This morning I was impressed enough half way through my flows, that I felt obliged to express my appreciation.

Almost each day, I read somewhere that MSFS isn't really a Flight Simulator.  That it is a fancy camera system to explore the world, yes- but a true flight simulator- absolutely not!  I'll grant those pedantic pundits that the Sim isn't where it can and will be....That said, take a look at this photo. 

First we have the ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT FBW mod for the A320.  This morning I was going through my flows and suddenly realized, that I was operating this aircraft in a mostly realistic and appropriate fashion.  No, I am not saying that this is currently at the representative level we have gotten used to in P3D, but the progress in mere months is just STAGGERING!  If this keeps up, at this rate, we are all going to be very lucky indeed!  From initial power up, with the clacks and displays coming on line, to me muttering about the pedestal lighting and tweaking the knobs just so, to get it right. From initial power up, through ATSU to ECAM Status NO BLUE, I was working as I ought to... and I was being provided a cocoon of sensory stimuli that was fantastically familiar, and in many cases even better than I had in the older sim. Starting LEAP engines has become something that fully exercises the capabilities of my Bose computer speakers, and has become a topic of raised eyebrow conversation whenever the Trolly Dolly passes by during light off.

Next, take a look at the atmospherics.  Yes, the weather has it's issues, but when it does work, it all comes together wonderfully.  Look at the fog bank, then look at the lighting and it's resultant glow.  Then look at the reflections on the belly and tail cone of the beautiful EZY ZHA Neo mod.  The wavy hot gas spewing from the blued exhaust cone, the moisture in the air which you can actually see gathering and dripping in rivulets, the under belly reflections and refractions and light scattering all present and scheduled to get better with Asobo's Particle Physics new hire- something never seen in Sim.  Then look at Rwy 23R and for the first time in Sim, realize that the Manchester Hump we all know so well from the real world, is actually present.  Macco Simulations has brought us Manchester like we wished we always had.

Today, at the other end, I will taxy under the Airbridge at LGW and look out and see the BA lounge where I have spent many an hour.  I'm sure I will still be smiling.

The next Sim update is only days away, and incrementally, the Sim gets better.  I fully realize the attraction of an XBox market, and know that it cannot be ignored.  I only hope Asobo (and especially MS who control the purse strings) realize that if they produce something authentic (with nuance and fidelity) they get to keep THAT crowd, and have something that will inherently be a better experience for all.  One of the most significant aspects of our new Sim is the time and talent being invested gratis.  It used to be mostly the SOH crowd, and an occasional tidbit here and there.  Now it seems to be a viable and thriving global community. That bit, was the only thing that I believe XPlane did better than us.  It is humbling and truly uplifting to see so many, give so much.  We, the beneficiaries, owe these pioneers in JS/TS and C++/WASM as they are truly on the bleeding edge. Additionally, the FREEWARE IS SO GOOD, that payware is going to have to step up their game AND reduce their pricing merely to survive.  I have often said, I would not want to be a payware developer at this moment in time.  Yes, there will always be a market for authentic and accurate simulation, and many including I are willing to pay for the privilege; however, the bar has undeniably been raised. Add to that the sheer market size of MSFSMP (NOT THE IN GAME rather the entire market) and dynamics WILL HAVE TO BE DIFFERENT. 

That said, I would ask Asobo to consider the plight of the professional developer, and facilitate a way for them to secure their IP.  When the goal is collective benefit and altruistic, there are no current barriers.  When the goal is profit, things are very different.  There is plenty of room for both- I read that MSFS recently reached 2M+ users and just wait until the XBox crowd get's their hands on it.

Ok- enough meandering- I started all this to say thanks to @IcemanFBW and the entire FBW team- so, "Thanks!"

C

 

PS- Please Asobo, remember that more is not always better, sometimes it's just more.  Aerodynamics is ALL about nuance, please listen to the community that is reaching out to you.

You’re defensive about people saying this flying game is not a sim, but then spend 87% of your post talking about the eye-candy aspects of it??

Also, WHY do you KEEP shouting?

32 minutes ago, mrfilbert said:

Very well written - I agree wholeheartedly. For all its flaws, no sim has ever made me feel like I'm flying in the real world in the way this sim does. And this, surely, is what 99% of us want from a PC-based flight simulator.

This is the crux of the matter. The other "sims" have turned into procedure and button mashing simulations.

They are very good at what they do but they are not "flight" sims.

The discussion reminds me of musician friends of mine arguing over whether programming and sequencing electronic and  midi based music counts as music at all (compared to say playing cello or using a drum set)  or whether a 3D printed miniature designed on a PC  counts as "art" or sculpture. 

I am firmly on the side of  sequenced music, 3D printed sculptures and IFR/AP based sims NOT being true music/art/flight-sims - though I concede many many people would disagree on all three counts.  None of these are arguments where either side is prepared to listen to the other, they are just out to bash the other side with purported "facts".

Edited December 18, 20205 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

2 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Also, WHY do you KEEP shouting?

The same reason you moved to Kiribati probably - joy and excitement. 😉

26 minutes ago, Richdem said:

Completely agree,

Yes there are some flaws, yes things break after each update but a few times I have been cloud surfing in the modded Longitude or the love of my MSFS life lol, the TBM and I have had to pinch myself. I think I know what it actually looks like in real life to cloud surf. I still love X-Plane 11 mainly for The FF B757, A320 & Zibo 737. I am actually enroute from LEIB to EGKK in the Zibo. After I am done I will be switching to MSFS 2020 for a glorious evening and sightseeing tour of Ontario in the TBM 🙂

Happy Days 

I've had times where I've been really frustrated with MSFS and I was thinking about putting it to one side for a bit, but most of the problems sort of get sorted fairly quickly, and the major deficiencies are being worked on longer term by Asobo.

7 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

ou’re defensive about people saying this flying game is not a sim, but then spend 87% of your post talking about the eye-candy aspects of it??

I am so glad someone else wrote this! 😁

10 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

You’re defensive about people saying this flying game is not a sim, but then spend 87% of your post talking about the eye-candy aspects of it??

Also, WHY do you KEEP shouting?

Why do you sound so angry? The P3D v5 forum is across the hall.

Just now, DJJose said:

Why do you sound so angry? The P3D v5 forum is across the hall.

Why do you get so upset when someone points out the obvious? There’s a couple of people in this sub who cannot stand any post that does not fully praise their sim, and I suspect you may fall into this catgory.

I normally post in the p3d forum btw, was just dropping - as a very occasional MSFS flier - in to say “hi” and see what was going on here. Thanks for the warm welcome! 🙂
 

7 hours ago, raymar said:

Talk about old school.  Geez Louise. Not even a bad joke.

Quite right mate.  It IS a GREAT joke.

Tony

Just now, OzWhitey said:

Why do you get so upset when someone points out the obvious? There’s a couple of people in this sub who cannot stand any post that does not fully praise their sim, and I suspect you may fall into this catgory.

I normally post in the p3d forum btw, was just dropping - as a very occasional MSFS flier - in to say “hi” and see what was going on here. Thanks for the warm welcome! 🙂
 

All in fun. Happy Holidays!

12 minutes ago, mrfilbert said:

The same reason you moved to Kiribati probably - joy and excitement. 😉

Ay, I can’t fault you there. As long as it’s not angry shouting, I get too much of that around here. 🙂

Just now, DJJose said:

All in fun. Happy Holidays!

Lol, happy holidays to you too, sir. Enjoy your festive season flying!

10 minutes ago, Janov said:

I am so glad someone else wrote this! 😁

🤦‍♂️

3 hours ago, Janov said:

I am so glad someone else wrote this! 😁

Rather than constantly lurking in the MSFS forums to sneer at its faults, you might do more good advocating for changes to the faults of XP in the XP forums. Not saying you’re not welcome here and your sneering is always without merit, but there hasn’t been any activity in the XP forum for 3 days..

To the OP ... such a fun read.

Having used them all, I've come to conclude that X-Plane, P3D, FSX do a good job of simulating "being in a simulator" where button pushing and procedures rule the day, while MSFS comes the closest to simulating "actually flying in the air over this beautiful planet" which is the part of the romance that got us to go up there in the first place.

Both are valid ways to spend your time and the raison d'etre for the sims in their respective niches.

49 minutes ago, VFXSimmer said:

To the OP ... such a fun read.

Having used them all, I've come to conclude that X-Plane, P3D, FSX do a good job of simulating "being in a simulator" where button pushing and procedures rule the day, while MSFS comes the closest to simulating "actually flying in the air over this beautiful planet" which is the part of the romance that got us to go up there in the first place.

Both are valid ways to spend your time and the raison d'etre for the sims in their respective niches.

"Simulating being in a simulator" is a concept I had never heard of before -- a "simulator simulator"! I do believe this idea is a great way to summarize the difference between MSFS and all of  its predecessors. If you want the best in "simulation simulation", go with FSX, FS9, PD3, or X-plane. If you want the closest experience to actual flying that is achievable on a home computer, MSFS is the ticket. Sums it up beautifully. Thanks!