Posted by Alexis at the Official forums... Worth giving a look, and commenting so that it might get a chance of being noticed by Dev team ...

 

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/physics-and-aerodynamic-comparison-between-real-flight-test-and-mfs2020-arcade-feeling/352691

Thanks - Just commented.

speechless but not unexpected

... so you think the dev team is unaware of these issues?

It's one persons observation. Nothing new as these complaints have cropped up since release.

I don't think DEV team cares. Considering it will be available on an Xbox console and can be played with an Xbox controller.

I don't believe we will ever see realism like people are expecting.

 

1 minute ago, tpete61 said:

It's one persons observation. Nothing new as these complaints have cropped up since release.

I don't think DEV team cares. Considering it will be available on an Xbox console and can be played with an Xbox controller.

I don't believe we will ever see realism like people are expecting.

 

is based on facts  his observation

if it has to be the 'Future' they better have a look at it and fast

As others pointed out, what Alexis observed but, above all, documented is a way easier to reach the Dev team than just ( as I did before ) writing that something doesn't feel ok with this or that...

Actually comparing to real world data, even if not for the exact same aircraft model, can easily show using  data genuinely extracted from MFS itself, that something needs the Devs attention for future updates.

Regarding the suggestions about the use response curves in MFS, be aware that data, both real world ( NASA ) and what Alexis extracted from the sim refers to actual control surface displacement irrespective of the associated controller deflection.

 

29 minutes ago, tpete61 said:

It's one persons observation. Nothing new as these complaints have cropped up since release.

I don't think DEV team cares. Considering it will be available on an Xbox console and can be played with an Xbox controller.

I don't believe we will ever see realism like people are expecting.

 

So? You can play xplane with Android device. You can drive rfactor with keyboard. And you can definitely fly realistic Flight sim with xbox controller. It is just a matter of how you set ip up. 

It just takes time, it will get there. 

32 minutes ago, jcomm said:

As others pointed out, what Alexis observed but, above all, documented is a way easier to reach the Dev team than just ( as I did before ) writing that something doesn't feel ok with this or that...

Actually comparing to real world data, even if not for the exact same aircraft model, can easily show using  data genuinely extracted from MFS itself, that something needs the Devs attention for future updates.

Regarding the suggestions about the use response curves in MFS, be aware that data, both real world ( NASA ) and what Alexis extracted from the sim refers to actual control surface displacement irrespective of the associated controller deflection.

 

If PMDG and other high fidelity aircraft developers have, indeed, been in close communication with Asobo, it's clear that aircraft dynamics have been discussed. It's also clear to me that Asobo has decided to stick with the general outline of a flight sim and some of the real stuff to outside developers. At first, this strategy may seem lazy or irresponsible, but if Developers have a future with this platform, it's because they can add value added products to the sim. Hi fidelity Flight modeling would be such a feature that many users would be willing to pay for. Of course, it remains to be seen if this platform will allow high fidelity flight modeling.

During the old days of FSX, we got plenty of freeware, but the flight modeling left a lot to be desired.

I'm glad someone took the time to do this, it's been on my mind since the sim released that tbe best way to understand what's up would be to collect some data in a controlled test.

What a joke of a flight model.  

We should not have to pay $150 for aircraft that throw away Asobo's flight model and implement their aerodynamics in WASM in order to have aircraft with actual inertia.

 

51 minutes ago, tpete61 said:

It's one persons observation. Nothing new as these complaints have cropped up since release.

I don't think DEV team cares. Considering it will be available on an Xbox console and can be played with an Xbox controller.

I don't believe we will ever see realism like people are expecting.

 

Name me one sim that users didn't complain about lack of "realism" right after release? Your post actually is like djavu! I remember back in XP11 thread with similar analysis  of "realistic aircraft behaviour", and replies similar  to "Austin doesn't care","please someone convince Austin to look at.." and so on LOL Then after Austin tweaked something again a barrage of thread like " no it got worse, return back how it was" And finally after a while well that is limitation of all sim so we just leave with it.

Needless to say that after favorite Hot Start team released TBD majority people couldn't handle "realistic" torque on take off so developers had to remove it. Then return, then tweak it again LOL

My question is, can the effects of inertia, momentum, and oscillation be adjusted within the currently accessible flight model files, or only in the core flight sim file that only Asobo have control of?

It appears a quick fix was to introduce the new controller settings (response lag), which have helped in my case, but still don't appear to be too realistic.

At the moment, although this is worth looking at by Asobo at some stage, I would rather they addressed the ground handling, which is a bigger problem in my opinion; the flight dynamics I can actually put up with.

Edited January 19, 20215 yr by bobcat999

The response lag is nothing but a hack to hide this terrible flight model by adding the delay to the inputs.  I have never seen any other flight sim where delaying inputs was an option, it makes no sense at all.  Only in this bizarre Asobo reality is such an option needed.

The bad ground handling and sudden yaw motions when touching down or lifting off could actually be a result of the lack of inertia and damping being seen in this testing.

Asobo's entire flight model strategy is based on "emergent behavior".  Get rid of the table based flight model from the FSX days and get the basic aerodynamics and physics correct, then the other behaviors like ground handling, stall, spin, etc will supposedly "emerge" from that.  

What this test shows is that they have the basics wrong.  If the basics are wrong then the more complex behaviors that emerge from it are wrong, and you end up trying to put tables of fudge factors on top of the emergent stuff to fix it (tables...like FSX).  Only now there is a lot more complicated stuff going on then the old purely table based flight models, so it becomes much harder to dial in a flight model.  

Testing the response to a disturbance and making sure it was reasonable should have been one of the very first tests in developing a flight model of this type.  And they clearly didn't do it.

Edited January 19, 20215 yr by marsman2020

1 hour ago, arsenal82 said:

is based on facts  his observation

if it has to be the 'Future' they better have a look at it and fast

Enlighten us to what is "Fast" the next few day? within a week? within a month? becasue anything more than a month is not "Fast" and just what is going to happen if in your opinion its not fixed "Fast" does everyone go back to P3D or Xplane? within the next month at best?

So please let us what is "Fast"

The amount of people with glasss half full in the topic is funny, all doom and gloom. lol.

Also people totally forget that P3D has realizam sliders and like MSFS, rfactor does, if you want to "play" any as a game you can. But best to gloss over that to suit your needs! Becasue if MSFS is not fixed "fast" we are all off......what a joke! well I hope some of you would go off to that better sim! 

O, one last thing, how old is MSFS? Think! People who want to be constructive, great, but some are just are just laughable.

Edited January 19, 20215 yr by Nyxx

Using workarounds is really not the right way to move.

Just as ASOBO did for making it less evident that there's something wrong with the way aircraft react to x-wind effects on ground ( and in the air too, if you set some instability in the weather sliders for gusts ... ). Murmur called my attention a few weeks ago to a strange phenomenon that you can notice if you enable the Dev mode and one of it's FDE screens where the normal and axial components of wind are reported.

You'll find out that apparently what they did was to make null and then slowly increasing up to around 15 knot taxi speed the normal component so that even if your wind is 20 knot from 9 o'clock on ground, as you start moving it'll slowly progress from 0 knot to the final value - and then you really start feeling the true x-wind component, yet by that time other aerodynamic forces have built up a few more "compensations" that you can use to try to control the aircraft. It's a "trick", and IMO not a very nice one 😕

Edited January 19, 20215 yr by jcomm