I've never been a big fan of the whole airliner thing in the various sims - I'm much more in to just pootering around in something small and slow, or a heli, so I can gawp at the scenery. On those rare occasions when I use the big stuff I'm very much just a "ctrl-E" and away sort of guy. But, I'd like to get to grips a bit more with these things, so I'm going to ask for some pointers. I'm still not interested in mastering the cockpit of a big tubeliner, and I'm afraid I still (at this point, anyway) have no interest in full cold and dark, press all the buttons, type flights. But I would like to get to grips with the whole flight plan and autopilot thing.

I've had a play using the MSFS native flight plan setups, and they seem well suited to my level of interest. Again, I'm not interested in replicating any kind of real-world experience, so I'm not worried about making "incorrect" routes etc, and I certainly don't want to bother with replicating real life plans using planning addons at this point. Maybe if I get into it I'll come to that later.

I can see that if I create a flight plan in the initial menu, when the sim loads my setup (in something like the A330 for example) I can see that the plan is loaded in to the aircraft's FMC (not even sure if that's the right name for it!) but then I'm a bit unsure of how I then actually get the flight going according to the plan.

For example, if I've set a plan that starts from a gate, and then turn on "AI Controls aircraft" then that seems to turn the systems on, go through the whole pushback, taxi and take off routine, but once in the air it doesn't necessarily seem to follow the plan particularly accurately, and the landing (if it gets that far) tends to be a bit random. Alternatively, if I start at the gate and let the AI get me in to the air, and then turn off AI control and click the AP on, that seems to follow the flight plan ok but the couple of times I've done that it doesn't want to come down at the destination airport.

I dare say this sounds a bit lame to all you folk who are seriously into your 747s etc, but all I'm looking to do for now is to find out the best way to set up a flight plan and then have the aircraft fly on AP as much of the way as possible, while I decide if this is something I want to get more involved in.

I have spent what feels like several days (lifetimes in some cases) looking for and at youtube videos about flight planning and autopilot etc, but most of them are truly appalling. People mumbling, clicking on stuff without explanation, or doing stuff and then saying things like "oh, not sure why that's not working" or "no, hang on, that's wrong" etc.

So, I'm not asking for step by step instructions, but if anyone can spare a few minutes to just list what the basic steps should be in what order (start aircraft, take off manually, engage AP etc) I'll investigate the detail for myself. And if anyone can recommend any particular videos or other instructional texts that would be good as well.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can advise,

cheers,

Andy

I don't know if this is along the lines of what you're looking for but I've heard good things about FS Academy.  I'll be getting their IFR tutorial soon.  They just came out with a "Jetliner" tutorial.

https://www.fsacademy.co.uk/jetliner

 

I just follow a checklist.   I don't have to think too deeply, I can just do each item in the checklist.  Sometimes, if I really like an aircraft, I will make my own checklist or supplement an existing one, like how to set up my flight in Pilot2ATC.   @Noel I believe has made a couple of checklists, I use his King Air one in P3D, with a bit of modification.

Checklists exist for a reason -- because even a seasoned pilot can accidentally overlook something -- that is how most human minds work.

1 hour ago, andy1252 said:

I dare say this sounds a bit lame to all you folk who are seriously into your 747s etc, but all I'm looking to do for now is to find out the best way to set up a flight plan and then have the aircraft fly on AP as much of the way as possible, while I decide if this is something I want to get more involved in.

So you would prefer to use the MSFS flight planning right also? Any interest at all in the A-320? Or just the 747 for now? And maybe 787. Reason I ask about the A-320 is of course cause of the FBW mod. You sound just like me. I fly them once in awhile, But usually no Cold & Dark, flipping every switch, etc... Get Flight plan ready, and fly from A to B?

Why not as a stepping stone try the WorkingTitle CJ4 from cold and dark?  It takes maybe 3 minutes to start it up..and just another few to initialize the fms and enter a flight plan.  There are a few very high quality tutorials out there.

Then you could move onto the FBW bus.

 

To those giving him advice on CJ4, it’s actually a bit more daunting because there is no auto throttle… A320 is the easiest way to start with airliners. 
 

Here are the basics… You NEED to get familiar with FMC. In there, you will need to enter some parameters that will program the autopilot such as your weight, takeoff flaps configuration etc… the FMC will then calculate your V speeds for you (most important one being Vr - your speed at which you rotate for takeoff)

The good news is after you configure it, 99% of your flight will be on AP. You will want to make sure EVERYTHING is in managed mode (has a dot by it - speed, heading)… you want to activate your FDs and have your correct initial altitude set. Once you take off, it’s very simple - gear up, retract flaps on schedule displayed on your PD, activate AP. You are done. Once ATC directs you to higher altitudes, set that into the AP and press the button for managed altitude mode. The aircraft will climb at its optimal rate. Same with descent. If you get the FBW mod, that one actually has capability to autoland on ILS approaches. Do NOT have ANY assists on and forget about AI pilot as a concept. 

11 hours ago, JeffF said:

I don't know if this is along the lines of what you're looking for but I've heard good things about FS Academy.  I'll be getting their IFR tutorial soon.  They just came out with a "Jetliner" tutorial.

https://www.fsacademy.co.uk/jetliner

Thanks for this, Jeff. I suspect it will have far more detail than I need or want but I have just bought a copy and will give it a go. I've pretty much given up on youtube tutorials - as an ex mainframe systems software instructor who used to design and deliver complex training packages I find most of them deeply annoying and unintelligible. The blurb for this is a bit over the top ('authentic', 'realistic', 'techniques used by the professionals' etc) but I'll see if I can handle it.

Like I said in my original post, I'm not looking to learn to fly like a pro, I just want to be able to get in the air and make the thing go where I want it to without having to sit and hold the controls all the time (which is what I currently have to do). I see tales of people doing long flights in real time and I just don't see the attraction. For me, sitting in the cockpit for hours is as much fun as sitting in cattle class next to a sweaty talkative insurance salesman with a couple of screechy kiddies in the row behind me <grin>, but each to their own taste - I'm not knocking those who enjoy all this stuff but it's not for me. I love to look out of the window at the world out there, and that's best done low and slow, and in the case of the big airliners and transports I love to see them in the air, which is best done from an outside view (which, oddly enough, makes it difficult to control them). Flight levels, wind directions, traffic rules and regulations are for the real world, in the sim I shall go where I want whenever I want - it's what my inner 14 year old demands <grin>

@Mace, @in2tech, @ryanbatcund, and @BostonJeremy77 - thank you all for your input, much appreciate you taking the time to reply. Plenty of things to think about there in case I end up throwing FSAcademy out in a fit of pique!

cheers,

Andy

I used to be able to fly the jets in FSX OK but MSFS is so much more complicated.  I have no idea ho to use the FMC at all.

In fact I've not even mastered the Garmin in the C172, though I can follow a flightplan I have loaded from within the sim or from Little Navmap, set up SIDs and STARs and switch to an ILS approach OK.  If my flightplan has an approach to RWY 27, I have no idea how to set up a STAR if ATC give me an approach to RWY 09 or even alter a flightplan whilst in flight.  

I see people trying to fly the jets before they have even learned how to fly a 152 and wonder why they can't fly them.

It's hard trying to remember and follow the instructions from a video in flight and I need something written down.

Edited May 22, 20215 yr by cianpars

17 minutes ago, andy1252 said:

Like I said in my original post, I'm not looking to learn to fly like a pro, I just want to be able to get in the air and make the thing go where I want it to without having to sit and hold the controls all the time (which is what I currently have to do).

Thanks, Andy, let me tell you you're not alone. I am following this thread with much interest. I've been a GA flyer for ages and will probably remain one. Neither will I have enough time left during the rest of my life nor the patience for a (in RL two-years full-time) ATP education. 

Having said this, I wouldn't mind getting a liner up into the air now and then, preferred mostly hand-flying. And who knows, perhaps I would dig deeper into it if  I find it's fun?

Kind regards, Michael

Okay so here's the gist of it:

Pick a Boeing airliner, they are a bit easier to get into because the concept with Boeings is that the FMC advises you what to do and then you do it, whereas it's the other way around in an Airbus, i.e. you tell the FMC everything at the start of the flight, and then you let it do stuff, so there's often a bit of 'what's it doing now?' going on with an Airbus if you don't know all the systems, so learning on a Boeing will make things easier.

So. Here goes. On the set up a flight screen/map in MSFS, pick the 747. Choose a departure airport (for this description I'll pick Manchester UK, EGCC, and for the destination, I'll pick Paris Charles De Gaulle LFPG). Choose a stand to go from so the plane starts up with the engines stopped and parked at the gate (I recommend Gate 55). Pick a destination airport and then on the flight routing bit up at the top right, choose high altitude airways. This will create a route for you automatically and put it in the FMC for you. If you want to take off and land from specific runways, pick those too on this planning screen, otherwise you'll get them assigned to you by ATC, but we'll ignore the ATC on this occasion. Now start the flight.

When the flight loads, turn on the battery on the overhead (left side under a little guarded switch, click that and move the Standby Power knob to Auto) so you have some power and then crank up the APU, or if you like, just start the engines with Control+E (you don't really do that in real life, you initially run off either ground power then crank up the APU for pushback when you disconnect from ground services, then crank the main engines up as you push back, but we don't care about that on this occasion).

So, on the stand with some power running, you will now be able to see the avionics all lit up. Take a look at the FMC's CDU. To understand what that means, technically the FMC is flight management computer gubbins in the avionics bay which can link to the autopilot panel up on the dashboard and the CDU is the Computer Display Unit - i.e. the thing that looks like a big pocket calculator - which allows you to control the FMC through the autopilot via putting stuff in on its keypad, but people sometimes call the CDU the FMC, so the terms are a bit interchangeable in everyday use. Note that if you stay on battery power too long, the batteries will go flat, so if you like just crank the engines up with Control+E.

The CDU will be on its start up screen, and it looks scary and complex at first, but it isn't once you know a bit about it. The flight plan will have already been loaded into it, so you don't have to worry about that part, but you will need to put a bit of info into it to have it be usable for your flight. So, let's do that.

The screen on the CDU which you will be looking at initially will be the IDENT page. Look at the bottom right and you will see POS INIT (position initialisation), Click on the button to the right of where it says that. These buttons along the side are called the Line Select Keys (LSKs) and you typically click the one alongside the bit of info on the screen to get to things, but sometimes you use the buttons on the keypad as well. So, now you are on the POS INIT screen. Click on the LSK third from the bottom on the right hand side of the screen alongside the GPS coordinate figure. You will see that this figure is now in the bottom part of the screen (this bit is called the scratchpad, and it is where you see stuff that you type in on the keypad). With the GPS coordinates in the scratchpad, now click on the LSK alongside the SET IRS POS text and the GPS coordinate from the scratchpad will populate that line. This means you've told the FMC where the airliner is so it knows where to start navigating from. Now use the keypad to type EGCC and it will appear in the scratchpad area. Now click on the LSK on the top left of the screen alongside the REF AIRPORT bit, so the airliner knows which airport it is at. Now type 55 and put that in the gate section using the same method you used to put EGCC in.

With that done. Now click on the bottom left LSK where it says INDEX. Click on the LSK alongside PERF (performance). On the real thing, this is where you can enter things such as your cruise altitude and Cost Index (how efficiently you want to run the engines) and stuff like that, but it should all be filled in apart from fuel reserve figure, but since we are not flying far, we can leave that bit empty. so let's click back on INDEX and click on the LSK next to TAKEOFF. Now type 5 on the FMC keypad and click in the FLAPS section to set the flaps in the FMC. Now set the actual flaps to five to match that.

Click on the three LSKs alongside the V speeds on the right hand side, and this will populate the screen with your V speeds so that they appear on the main PFD when you are taking off.

Now click on the DEP ARR button on the CDU's keypad. Click on the top left LSK alongside DEP (departure) and pick 23R. you could also pick a SID if you wanted to (standard instrument departure route), but we won't bother with that this time. Now click on the LSK alongside ARR (arrival) and pick 26L for your arrival runway. Again you could now pick a STAR (standard terminal arrival route) if you wanted to, but we won't bother with that, we'll just go direct to the airport. You should notice that the EXEC button is lit up in green. This is the button you use to confirm your choices, so make sure you click that. Now click on the LEGS button.

Now with you on the LEGS page, look up on the top left side of the panel right above the second big display screen on the dashboard and you will see the EFIS panel (Electronic Flight Instrument System). Turn the knob marked CTR all the way to the right until it is on PLN (plan), and roll the knob to the right of it marked TFC so the range on your second big display goes out to about 40 miles. Now back on the CDU, but with that second map display screen also visible. Now on the CDU, press the bottom right LSK next to STEP, and you will see your map view jumps to the next way point and the CDU display jumps through the list to the corresponding waypoint in the list. Keep clicking step to check the route all the way to LFPG so you can check your route to make sure there are no gaps or stupid turns. You will notice that there is one, where we fly right past the arrival airport and then have to make a tight turn to line up for 26L, which is less than ideal, so let's change that.

Go back to the DEP ARR page on the CDU by clicking on the button for it, click on ARR, then click on 26L and change it to 9R and then hit EXEC which will again be lit up in green because the FMC is asking you to confirm a change. now if you go back to the LEGS page and use STEP again, you will see this is a bit more of a sensible route with no stupid tight left turn when you are nearing the airport, but you might now have to click on the INIT REF button and then onto the TAKEOFF bit to put the V-speeds in again if you see the alert 'NO V-SPEEDS' on the primary flight display, which can happen if you make a big change to your plan like we just did.

So, that wasn't too hard was it? Now we are ready to go. So let's do that.

Release the parking brake and hit Shift+P to push back, when you are out near the taxiway, hit shift+P again to stop the push. Now taxy out to the nearest runway, this will be 23R. Ignore ATC, just line that sucker up on the runway. and set the parking brake. Now, look on the main autopilot panel and we'll get ready to go.

Change the speed to 250 knots with the dial below the speed number. 747s are allowed to bust the 250 limit below 10,000 feet because they are big buggers, so don't worry about that. Click on LNAV  and VNAV buttons so they both light up (lateral navigation and vertical navigation, i.e. the things which make your autopilot follow your plan). Notice that the altitude on the main autopilot panel is set to 10,000 feet. Change that to 43,000 feet. this is because even though your FMC will follow your plan when you turn on the autopilot, the altitude setting will override that and not let you climb above the number in that window (you can use this as a means to further control your flight if you like when adhering to ATC flight level instructions, which is what a lot of pilots do).

You will see two little toggle switches marked F/D ON/OFF on either end of the main autopilot panel. This is the flight director, turn both those on and your recommended flight path will appear on the Primary Flight Display and you could follow these cue if you wanted to fly manually.

Now, at this point on the real thing, we'd check the flaps were set, so do that, and then we'd hit TOGA (take-off/Go Around), but let's keep it simple since this is not a tutorial on how to fly a 747. Just push the throttles up about halfway and let the engines stabilise at that thrust setting. Now firewall the throttles and release the parking brake and off you go. Follow the audio V-speed cues and haul that sucker off the deck as you hear VR. climb out at about 15 degrees, when you pass 400 feet AGL, turn on the autopilot and the autothrottle, then get the gear up and get the flaps up. 

You should now be automatically following your flight plan. If you change the CDU to PROG (progress), you will be able to watch the FMC step through the flight plan as it progresses and you will be able to monitor your progress to know when you should be descending. Typically, an airliner will need at least 50 miles to get down from its cruise altitude to the kind of altitude suitable for an approach. So be aware of that.

Note that you will need to up the speed setting on the autopilot to allow the FMC to get up to cruise speed, and you can toggle it to read Mach rather than knots if you like. The 747 will cruise at about Mach .82. Reverse the speed settings for your descent as you get near the end of your flight and slowly bring in flaps at the recommended speeds on the PFD, Depending on weight, and flap settings, the 747 will land at about 165 knots or so. this means you will need to think about slowing down early because the 747 can be a slippery bugger in a descent. Use the spoilers to slow you down if necessary (not done much in real life, but we don't care about that for this little guide). The flaps will slow you down if you bring them in incrementally and the gear will too.

When you get near Charles de Gaulle airport, Your radios should automatically tune for your selected runway because you put that in the FMC, so you can get down to about 3,500 feet with the flaps and gear down at about 180 knots as you approach the airport, and select LOC (localiser) on the autopilot panel. This will line you up with the runway and track the centreline as you come in. Watch the right side of the PFD and when you see a magenta diamond move to the middle of the right hand side of the display (this is the glideslope indicator), click APP (approach) button and you will start tracking the glideslope. Click a second CMD (command) button on the right hand side of the autopilot panel so that two of them are lit up, this makes two autopilots control the approach for dual redundancy safety. Now you can either let the thing land itself, or you can disengage the autopilot when you get near the runway at about 200 feet, and land the thing manually. Flare the 747 when it is still about 50 feet off the deck and close the throttles, keep the flare angle below about 12 degrees nose up to avoid a tail strike. In real life you would set the autobrake on the panel and probably use reverse thrust as well, but for the purposes of this, just stomp on the brakes to stop.

Welcome to Paris. Not rocket science is it? Pretty easy when you know how.

Obviously this is not a massively detailed tutorial, but if you do everything here that I've written, it should be enough to get you started. You can worry about all the proper procedures and rules and all that once you know this stuff. The Airbus is a bit different in how it works, but the concept is broadly similar, although this little guide will work well for the Bredok3D 737 MAX and the CS Triple Seven if you fancy either of those cheap payware airliners.

Have fun. 

Edited May 22, 20215 yr by Chock

If you want to try the CJ4 wt, PM/DM me your email and i will send you my walkthrough PDF, it should make from C & D to shut down very easy.

37 minutes ago, Chock said:

Okay so here's the gist of it:

Wow!

Thank you for this Chock/Alan. Incredibly good of you to take the time to do this.I've pasted it all off into a word doc and printed it off. This is EXACTLY the sort of info I was looking for, and I have to say you explain it all extremely well. It looks like the perfect level of detail for the precise level of word not allowed that is me! As I mentioned in my earlier reply here I used to be a technical course developer and instructor, and this is very much in the style I would use.

Hugely appreciated, and I will now go away and have a go at this. I promise not to pester you in my attempts to get to grips with this, but I will post on my progress.

Who knows, I may yet end up enjoying the big tin!

cheers,

Andy

Just now, andy1252 said:

I promise not to pester you in my attempts to get to grips with this, but I will post on my progress.

Well, if you get stuck, PM me, but it should be enough to get you going.

Just now, andy1252 said:

I used to be a technical course developer and instructor, and this is very much in the style I would use.

Me too. So as you'll know, being able to communicate what you know is just as important as the knowledge you are trying to impart when you are training people.

7 minutes ago, Chock said:

being able to communicate what you know is just as important as the knowledge you are trying to impart when you are training people.

Yep, and that's pretty much exactly what 99.9% of the youtube stuff out there fails to get. I know I shouldn't knock enthusiasm, but a lot of those videos are completely pointless.

Just now, andy1252 said:

Yep, and that's pretty much exactly what 99.9% of the youtube stuff out there fails to get. I know I shouldn't knock enthusiasm, but a lot of those videos are completely pointless.

Yup, if all the people on youtube claiming to be real pilots, actually were real pilots, the airlines would be able to hire a 747 crew for about fifty quid a week. 🤣