Future of p3d ?

[abrams_tank 7,391]

10 hours ago, NZ255 said:

We’ve been here before, we know how it turned out 🙂

That thread is very interesting as has all the same comments. 

Nice find. It's almost like you can replace "FS9" and "FSX" with other names, and you wouldn't even know that thread is from 2007 😄

[neilhewitt 493]

14 hours ago, z06z33 said:

I've been a serious simmer for 25 years and have never had the desire to use multiple displays as the gaps between them break immersion. In today's age of 50+inch screens and VR there are very few purposes for multiple monitors.

To quote The Dude: that's just, like, your opinion, man. Everyone has their own experience and everyone's experience is valid. 

I've flown P3D and MSFS in VR. It's a very impressive, immersive experience - albeit one with sharp edges because it's still early days for PC VR. But then I have to point at stuff with a mouse or a controller and I remember why I spent years and a lot of money building a simpit with lots of hardware controls, precisely so I wouldn't have to touch a keyboard or mouse at all. VR feels like being in a cockpit you can't touch and feel. My simpit feels like being in a cockpit that I can touch and feel. I know which I prefer. And while I know some people find the bezels between monitors annoying (I do too!), that's not a problem for me with my 180 degree wraparound projector screen and blended projector images. Which I absolutely can do in P3D, and absolutely cannot do in MSFS, and which I suspect I will never be able to do. That was my point.

Not because MSFS isn't a 'real' simulator. It very clearly is, though it comes in the frustrating (for me as a simmer) wrapping of an Xbox game, which is unsurprising given that it was always Microsoft's intention to push this to the casual gamer crowd as well as we simmers. But because, like I said, most 'serious simmers' appear to be OK with a single screen - big or small - and a mouse and keyboard with maybe a yoke and pedals and some other hardware bits and pieces. Few people will go as far as I have, and others have gone much, much further than me, and I don't see MS being willing to spend the significant money it would take to support us fully. I expect a fudged implementation of multi-monitor which will allow people to have the 'three monitors at 45 degrees' arrangement, and that's it.

If P3D for the home (as opposed to commercial / military) simpit-builder effectively dies off because 3rd parties stop supporting the platform with the add-ons that we need to make our setups go, I can either freeze my setup in time and just use it for as long as I can, or accept being pushed back to desktop simming. I don't want to do either. 

This is getting off-topic, though, so I think that's all I have to say on the matter.

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by neilhewitt

[z06z33 763]

16 hours ago, W2DR said:

How do you watch the in-flight movies?

On my couch haha or just alt tab out of the sim. If I'm in cruise there is like a 99.9999% chance I won't need to intervene

[BostonJeremy77 519]

The way I see it, even though the bulk of my flying RIGHT NOW is MSFS, every time I fire up P3D, it pleasantly surprises me how good it is. 5.2 looks good too. Not in the MSFS way, but it's not a shabby looking sim by any means. Yeah, I have all the Orbx stuff, but with that, things can look quite lovely. Yesterday I did a flight from Svalbard to Murmansk and was surprised how good the weather was - the snow on the runway, reflecting in the rising sun. The lovely Orbx trees in wintery Russia on approach, on today's flight from Krasnoyarsk to Norilsk, I am enjoying a rocky rocky climb to altitude thanks to RealTurb... it's great! Once in a while, P3D provides a much more immersive experience than I get with even MSFS. The built-in ATC is better too. My hangar is full of PMDG, A2A, FSLabs aircraft. I really have nothing to complain about. I will be staying with P3D through it all, regardless of what MSFS and XP bring in the future. I will fly all three sims and enjoy them for the best aspects of simulation they each provide. 

I am happy with a stable platform, a wonderful aircraft selection I have, and Orbx has fixed a lot of graphical gripes. HiFi improved ActiveSky and the hi-res clouds (full EA, volumetric on)... I feel like we are in a good place with LM. Certainly looking forward to whatever improvements they bring us in the future. 

If you don't compare sims so much, P3D really is an enjoyable product. It's very immersive. Things it lacks are made up for by things it shines in, just like the other two sims. 

[Michael Moe 494]

1 hour ago, BostonJeremy77 said:

The way I see it, even though the bulk of my flying RIGHT NOW is MSFS, every time I fire up P3D, it pleasantly surprises me how good it is. 5.2 looks good too. Not in the MSFS way, but it's not a shabby looking sim by any means. Yeah, I have all the Orbx stuff, but with that, things can look quite lovely. Yesterday I did a flight from Svalbard to Murmansk and was surprised how good the weather was - the snow on the runway, reflecting in the rising sun. The lovely Orbx trees in wintery Russia on approach, on today's flight from Krasnoyarsk to Norilsk, I am enjoying a rocky rocky climb to altitude thanks to RealTurb... it's great! Once in a while, P3D provides a much more immersive experience than I get with even MSFS. The built-in ATC is better too. My hangar is full of PMDG, A2A, FSLabs aircraft. I really have nothing to complain about. I will be staying with P3D through it all, regardless of what MSFS and XP bring in the future. I will fly all three sims and enjoy them for the best aspects of simulation they each provide. 

I am happy with a stable platform, a wonderful aircraft selection I have, and Orbx has fixed a lot of graphical gripes. HiFi improved ActiveSky and the hi-res clouds (full EA, volumetric on)... I feel like we are in a good place with LM. Certainly looking forward to whatever improvements they bring us in the future. 

If you don't compare sims so much, P3D really is an enjoyable product. It's very immersive. Things it lacks are made up for by things it shines in, just like the other two sims. 

+1 i still enjoy my FSL, PMDG´s etc . on this platform . Somehow its a relief to go back to something you know sometimes and also just enjoy time with these fully expensive addons simulations.

I do use MSFS for VFR and general fun right now but i will be using P3D for 22/23 for sure

Michael Moe

[SierraDelta 1,337]

Interesting update from RSR at the PMDG forum - with unedited comparison shots:

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/152231-12nov21-a-couple-of-raw-unedited-preview-images-for-737-lovers-to-start-your-weekend

[Christopher Low 5,332]

Whilst I can see the improvement in clarity, the lack of contrast and "depth" to the FMC buttons when in sunlight is rather striking in the MSFS shot. I assume that is simply because it is a "work in progress"?

[Ray Proudfoot 8,925]

Remember everyone, the title of this topic. If you wish to discuss the PMDG images in MSFS there’s another sub forum for that. 😉

[Christopher Low 5,332]

As far as I am aware, that is a comparison between the P3D and MSFS images, Ray. Therefore, it is a valid topic for discussion.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,925]

3 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

As far as I am aware, that is a comparison between the P3D and MSFS images, Ray. Therefore, it is a valid topic for discussion.

As long as it doesn’t snowball into a major comparison between the two sims resulting in “mine’s better than yours”.

[Patco Lch 1,462]

IT would be interesting to know the settings used in his comparison shots. RSR is trying to advance interest in his new product.

[psolk 3,037]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

As long as it doesn’t snowball into a major comparison between the two sims resulting in “mine’s better than yours”.

Yes, but the future of P3D is very much hinging on the development pace of MSFS.  I would say the two are directly related. Multiple people including myself come back to P3D for the AI and certain add-ons just not available in MSFS whether it be weather or hardware support.

Now AIG is moving into MSFS, PMDG is showing the 737 for MSFS, if QW deliver the 787, FSL steps into MSFS THEN what is the future of P3d?  I think the rate of add-on development for MSFS is going to have a direct straight line impact on the future of P3D.  If MSFS gets Hifi to deliver weather, AIG delivering AI, PMDG and QW in the mix then the reasons to come back to P3D and its future inevitably diminish.  Just my opinion though.  I stuck with FS9 for YEARS after the move to FSX for a few add-ons.  Outside of that use case for P3D the future is looking less and less bright from a consumer perspective in my opinion.  I don't think it will ever go away but I do think it will become like an FS9 where it is use what was already released and be happy with it because the chances of anything new and game changing are diminishing day by day... 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,925]

@psolk, MS/Asobo have said on more than one occasion they won't allow 3rd party weather. The only way in is by hacking. Not the best solution.

I'll be damned if I'm buying the PMDG737 a third time!

FSL have said nothing about MSFS. Their Concorde is for P3D v4/5 only.

Let's see how they manage DX12 and whether DXGI errors become common-place like in P3D v5.

Quite a few "ifs" in your post. I still see MSFS as a VFR simulator and nothing more.

[psolk 3,037]

13 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@psolk, MS/Asobo have said on more than one occasion they won't allow 3rd party weather. The only way in is by hacking. Not the best solution.

I'll be damned if I'm buying the PMDG737 a third time!

FSL have said nothing about MSFS. Their Concorde is for P3D v4/5 only.

Let's see how they manage DX12 and whether DXGI errors become common-place like in P3D v5.

Quite a few "ifs" in your post. I still see MSFS as a VFR simulator and nothing more.

Hmmm I didn't want to make this a comparison but there are a lot of "if's" in your statement as well.  

REX already delivered a weather add-on, Hifi is working on one outside of the SDK. Damian has also commented on the current state of MSFS weather depiction.  His exact words were "incredible" but that what he wants to implement lives outside Meteo Blue.

Ok, that is your choice not to buy it again but I think there will be a line around the block of people who DO want to buy it for MSFS. To deny that would be silly.  Because YOU don't want to pay again doesn't impact it's future success. 

FSL have not said anything about the Concorde being P3D V4/5 only.  In fact they barely say anything about the Concorde period.  Their latest installer also points to MSFS so while they haven't said anything they are already building in support.  No where have they said the Concorde is a P3D4/5 product only or that it wont come to MSFS.  

Sure, let's see what happens when they go DX 12.  But that again is a big "IF" they will have the same problems as P3D.  If they don't what does that say about the P3D code? 

The fact you see MSFS as a VFR sim and "nothing more" says more about your personal bias than anything Ray.  You've never even tried it.  In fact, it's the same thing FS9 users said about FSX years ago now being repeated about MSFS. 

 

I was merely posting how the future of P3D is "very much" tied to the future development of MSFS.  Overall I would say that is a pretty accurate statement, I wasn't looking to make this an A vs B thread... 

Edited November 13, 2021 by psolk

[Ray Proudfoot 8,925]

5 minutes ago, psolk said:

FSL have not said anything about the Concorde being P3D V4/5 only. 

Not directly but they did in a roundabout way. "There will only be one 64-bit version of Concorde. We are currently designing it for P3D v4/5." . Read into that what you wish.

6 minutes ago, psolk said:

The fact you see MSFS as a VFR sim and "nothing more" says more about your personal bias than anything Ray.  You've never even tried it.  In fact, it's the same thing FS9 users said about FSX years ago now being repeated about MSFS. 

Opinion, not bias. I still consider it in beta with these huge updates. I will not even consider buying it until those end. I've seen it on other's PC and it looks great but I'm not a fan of streaming a sim and the prospect of having to have a Steam account or an XBox one is not attracting me.