14 hours ago, spilok said:

Exactly my point.  MSFS is beautiful and I use it...BUT it's more a VFR game for me.  P3d, for me, at least, is a real flight simulator!

 

I have thousands of hours in P3D, and almost 700 in MSFS, and about 10 hours in an Airline Full motion sim, with an airline check pilot. I find MSFS much more realistic than P3D, and I am also  have about 600 hours  as PIC in RL flying.  

Edited November 14, 20214 yr by Bobsk8

53 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have thousands of hours in P3D, and almost 700 in MSFS, and about 10 hours in an Airline Full motion sim, with an airline check pilot. I find MSFS much more realistic than P3D, and I am also  have about 600 hours  as PIC in RL flying.  

How many hours of "You bet your job" do you have in a Level-D simulator?

6 hours ago, BostonJeremy77 said:

@Ray Proudfoot

 

It's a total shame, mate. I consider you such a valuable, knowledgeable bloke when it comes to P3D and especially Concorde. But in your posts you strike me as someone who hasn't experienced MSFS due to his own stubborn decision. Which is fine, right? If you are just another user. Your reasons sound like someone set in their ways and there isn't anything wrong with it except for the fact that you are a moderator of Avsim that appears to constantly further your own preferences ahead of aviation enthusiasts as a whole. You defend P3D (which I love) constantly while discrediting MSFS and I just would have thought better than to do that. Regards, Sir.

I really enjoy reading Ray's comments on everything discussed in this forum.  As a moderator, he is probably reading 10 times more threads on this forum than any of us do. 

Do you have to OWN a product to comment on it?  If you haven't experienced something, do you have the right to comment on it?  The answers, in my opinion are "NO" for the first question and "YES" for the second. 

I just purchased a 77" LG C1 OLED TV and added a SONOS soundbar and subwoofer.  I watched so very many videos and Youtube reviews of all TV's in this class, that I had definitely made an intelligent decision to purchase what I decided to purchase and to NOT purchase what I didn't.  Everything I read and saw in the reviews and videos were absolutely correct in my opinion.  I felt very justified in commenting on this TV even before I owned it.  It did not disappoint. It held true to the things reviewers published.

Secondly, I've never climbed Mt. Everest, but I can assure you that I have lived it in fabulous 4K video and watched hours and hours of those who prepare to climb, how they are vetted, and all the preparations necessary for setting up camps along the way, and how to combat the weather and temperatures. Climbing Mt. Everest has always held fascination for me, and I will NEVER climb it (at my age).  But I certainly feel justified in entering into a conversation about that marvelous accomplishment. I really do know more about it than many others.

We all have different opinions on product, experiences, philosophies, etc.  

The problem with the world today is that we don't want to LISTEN to other people's philosophies, politics, or whatever. I don't have to live the life of a homeless person in order to comment on it, be empathetic to it, and offer opinions on how to help those who are so unfortunate.  Discussion about what we HAVEN"T experienced can be very, very enlightening and useful.

 

Stan

A very interesting chat..

It's a matter of Realism vs Immersion, in my humble opinion.

In our simulator that we've built, we see real pilots brace themselves in their seats when anticipating touchdown, such is the immersion of the sim, be it any of the flight models that we have loaded, especially watching a genuine Boeing pilot practicing a landing at Luton in the UK & anticipating a landing.

BTW, this is using FS2004 on a Celeron, with freeware scenery & aircraft - such is the immersion factor.

Just saying!

 

Ray certainly has a right to voice his opinion. I suspect that there are a lot more "closet" P3D fliers around than some folks want to admit. It all comes down to which sim comes the closest to fitting each of our needs. I suspect that there is a lot of pent up anger around that IMHO comes from the fact that all of the Developers just dumped all of the customers who have for many years supported them and there businesses through the use of P3D and add ons. Now we find ourselves once again, with a new MS sim that is promised to work really good someday in the dreams of many hopeful customers that really want to believe the promise. All of the Dev's are out there chasing all those who want to believe it's going to be flight sim heaven some day over at MS. That leads to other sims being dead in the water for developement for now. I too, have never tried the MS 2020 and I too do not need too at this point. Much like Ray, I don't have to stick a rusty nail in my eye to know 100% that I won't like it. I found that out by reading a lot of post from folks who have tried it and did not like it.

There is no right or wrong opinion......as it is a opinion......

No need to say more ...

Be respectful, stay respectful and feel free to share opinions in a respectful manner. 

Marcus

1 hour ago, shivers9 said:

Much like Ray, I don't have to stick a rusty nail in my eye to know 100% that I won't like it. I found that out by reading a lot of post from folks who have tried it and did not like it.

Whilst I respect your opinion, can I ask;  what about all those posts from people who have tried it, loved it and have ditched P3D and/or Xplane for it?

4 hours ago, Wobbie said:

In our simulator that we've built, we see real pilots brace themselves in their seats when anticipating touchdown

LOL. I've caught myself doing same on my desk top more then once.

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

Whilst I respect your opinion, can I ask;  what about all those posts from people who have tried it, loved it and have ditched P3D and/or Xplane for it?

Sure...Fair question and easy answer. I just happen to be someone who does not spend a great deal of time looking all that close at the scenery. I do look out and am aware of things on the ground but 99.9% of the time it's more of a quick glance. As I posted before we all have different ways of using the sims. In a few years when the MS product is a bit more developed then I may change over. Best guess is that if MS does not drop this product like they did FSX and Flight then it is likely 2 or 3 years down the road yet.

43 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

In a few years when the MS product is a bit more developed then I may change over. Best guess is that if MS does not drop this product like they did FSX and Flight then it is likely 2 or 3 years down the road yet.

No need to "change over"... but if you ever get curious about why some of us are no longer spending time with P3D, even when still having it installed, you might invest in a 500 GB SSD, and MSFS standard edition.... and try it out. 🙂

Rob Young (RealAir) has turned the default Bonanza into a very nice plane, indeed..

One thing that occurred to me today when flying from Istanbul to Athens was the extensive cloud cover making ground viewing difficult. It wasn’t really a factor with P3D with all scenery installed but if you were flying that route in MSFS and were streaming the scenery you would have been downloading many megabytes of data you wouldn’t have seen.

In Europe and especially the UK this time of year can result in overcast conditions for many days. That makes using MSFS and it’s wonderful scenery somewhat pointless if you can’t see it except for the first few minutes at the start and end of a flight but I’m generally concentrating on flying the aircraft then, not admiring the view.

Low level flying wouldn’t have this problem if you remained at 1500ft or thereabouts. That’s why I would only use it for VFR sightseeing flights. Those would be highly enjoyable in MSFS; less so in P3D.

 

8 hours ago, BlueStar said:

How many hours of "You bet your job" do you have in a Level-D simulator

Haa ! I hear you, I’ve got mine next week.

It’s funny everyone  on the forum thinks wow full flight sim session, and quite rightly it’ll be good fun for Christopher 👍but you can almost hear all the airline guys on the forum groan as a wave of nausea hits them 🤢 at the thought.

40 minutes ago, jon b said:

Haa ! I hear you, I’ve got mine next week.

It’s funny everyone  on the forum thinks wow full flight sim session, and quite rightly it’ll be good fun for Christopher 👍but you can almost hear all the airline guys on the forum groan as a wave of nausea hits them 🤢 at the thought.

Exactly - when I retired about a years ago (and I was also a Checkie or approved Test Captain) I thought to myself - no more IR renewals, Line Checks, C&T renewals and no more medicals, that stuff had dominated my working life for ever it seemed - and now I was done with it all!. No more down the ILS at the MM in zero vis with one engine out and then they pull an hydraulic failure on you so the geat won't go down or then go up! 

Now becaue I am showing my age and for us all to remember how far have sims come, my initial Instrument Rating training was done in one of these - the original full motion sim - it was like riding a greasy pig! The original torture chamber! You learnt how to in this then they put you in a real aeroplane.

Edited November 15, 20214 yr by coastaldriver
correction

Ah yes, the good ole Link Trainer. I spent some hours in one as I started to work on my IFR rating back in the late 1960's. I was a teen-ager at the time. I always dreaded the "holding pattern" and how to properly enter it. Modern day technology has made that sooooooooo much easier!

Raymie.

They are great things and still good for ifr training!