vatsim for me.  so doesn't matter

11 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I assume some of you use an ATC program if you're dedicated IFR pilots. I couldn't contemplate not having Radar Contact. It's been on my various computers for over 15 years! Sadly, I don't see a way it could work in MSFS.

What are the ATC options like with MSFS? I assume the default is the same horrendous thing it was in FSX and P3D. Has anyone come up with a realistic alternative? RC developers left the scene years ago so they won't and given the complexity of the programming don't expect a rush!

I use the same PF3 in both sims... 

13 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I assume some of you use an ATC program if you're dedicated IFR pilots. I couldn't contemplate not having Radar Contact. It's been on my various computers for over 15 years! Sadly, I don't see a way it could work in MSFS.

What are the ATC options like with MSFS? I assume the default is the same horrendous thing it was in FSX and P3D. Has anyone come up with a realistic alternative? RC developers left the scene years ago so they won't and given the complexity of the programming don't expect a rush!

The default ATC is better than P3D/FSX as it supports SID/STARs at least. I also have Pilot2ATC, but unfortunately it does not talk to AI aircraft. Therefore, when I feel the need to have ATC guiding me, Vatsim is the way to go. If not, I just launch either LiveATC or a YouTube channel offering live airport radio and enjoy my flight anyway.

Edited November 13, 20214 yr by GCBraun

2 hours ago, psolk said:

What if P3D went subscription with streaming Google data?   In my opinion that is the only viable future for P3D.

I agree with this for the most part.  I tried MSFS for a month last year and was blown away by the scenery.  When I went back to P3D, I really missed the MSFS scenery.

I do think that P3D will ultimately survive even without the photoreal streaming scenery, but unless the developers substantially up their game, a lot of simmers will eventually abandon it for MSFS.  That is, if MSFS ever matures into a stable platform with all the important features and addons we've come to expect in a flight simulator.

Dave

2 hours ago, micstatic said:

The biggest problem with p3d to me (other than it's starting to look dated) is knowing developer support is limited at best.  It won't be that long until runway numbers change in real life, but we have the old runway numbers in p3d still.  IE, 7L becomes 8L.  I remember staying with FS9 for a long time and running into that problem.  It was a nuisance.  We will also see new airport terminals, and torn down ones that will not be captured in the sim.  I still get enjoyment from the sim, but it seems its days are numbered.  It's biggest selling point is it's biggest vulnerability now.  For years we could update the base sim and maintain maximum compatibility with out addons.  This is lovely, but it also creates a situation where the sim can only evolve so far.  To me the question to be asking, is if msfs or XP12 is the future.  Even if it hurts me to say that. 

It is a matter of what is important to the user. To me, it makes not one iota of difference if a runway is 09R or 08R, I can still do an ILS approach and land properly. Similarly, does it make any difference to your flying if a Terminal doesn't exist in real life any more? 

Starting to look dated? Not my version. I shall not be paying again for another sim especially with the potential costs of downloads.

7 minutes ago, IanHarrison said:

It is a matter of what is important to the user. To me, it makes not one iota of difference if a runway is 09R or 08R, I can still do an ILS approach and land properly. Similarly, does it make any difference to your flying if a Terminal doesn't exist in real life any more? 

Starting to look dated? Not my version. I shall not be paying again for another sim especially with the potential costs of downloads.

matters to me.  I fly on Vatsim.  I like to land and go to the proper terminal.  Not the terminal from 20 years ago.  I realize it's not important to everybody.  But I'd rather have my sim push newer technology and visuals even if that must be purchased.  

19 minutes ago, micstatic said:

matters to me.  I fly on Vatsim.  I like to land and go to the proper terminal.  Not the terminal from 20 years ago.  I realize it's not important to everybody.  But I'd rather have my sim push newer technology and visuals even if that must be purchased.  

As I said it's a personal choice. 

3 hours ago, micstatic said:

the lighting is better.  But to be honest I don't think the difference is as radical as you make it out.  Frankly I was a little disappointed when I saw these images this morning.  It's better, but not by as much as you are making it seem.  

Most of the difference is outside scenery plus the lighting. I was a little underwhelmed by RR's focus on cockpit elements that we're unlikely to look at much though.  I don't personally even rate the MSFS lighting as such a massive amount better, but other opinions may vary.  The biggest factor may well be performance.  If PMDG have moved away from DLLs to wasm maybe there will be an improvement?

Have you ever been in a REAL MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR SIMULATOR?  Does the scenery resemble MSFS scenery or P3d scenery more?

Stan

Edited November 13, 20214 yr by spilok

9 minutes ago, spilok said:

Have you ever been in a REAL MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR SIMULATOR?  Does the scenery resemble MSFS scenery or P3d scenery more?

Stan

The visuals (software part of it at least) in levelD sims are not nearly as good as any of the current PC sim plate forms.

23 minutes ago, spilok said:

Have you ever been in a REAL MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR SIMULATOR?  Does the scenery resemble MSFS scenery or P3d scenery more?

Stan

Well considering this scenery capability was only introduced a year ago I wouldn't really expect it to be in the real sims yet.  Real sims are more about pilot familiarization with the flight deck and type certification than interacting with streaming.  NO home sim provides what 30M sims do so it's pretty irrelevant.  

20 minutes ago, spilok said:

Have you ever been in a REAL MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR SIMULATOR?  Does the scenery resemble MSFS scenery or P3d scenery more?

Stan

I’ve been in the former British Airways Concorde simulator at Brooklands Museum near Heathrow back in 2016. Scenery was similar to that in FS9 but with enhanced London, New York and Hong Kong Kai Tak scenery.

You don’t need too much as it affects performance and let’s face it, when you’re in the left hand seat of the world’s fastest passenger aircraft the last thing on your mind is how detailed the scenery is! 😉

Your main interest is slamming those throttles forward with full reheat watching real instruments come to life! 😁👍

6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I'll be damned if I'm buying the PMDG737 a third time!

Here Here! Or the QOTSII or the T7 with their additions, or Leonardo Maddog, or TFDi 717 or Coolsky DC9 or several A2A planes or dozens of scenery and utility addons. I'm enjoying return on my many years of sim investment. Though I do have MSFS and the PMDG DC6 just not anxious to get back in line with credit card in hand waiting on developer updates to the new platform which I already have in P3DV5.

No animus for those who do. This is why P3D has a lengthy future with me regardless of what developers choose to do. They have already made plenty off me.

57 minutes ago, spilok said:

Have you ever been in a REAL MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR SIMULATOR?  Does the scenery resemble MSFS scenery or P3d scenery more?

Stan

Yes, many times. The scenery doesn't look very good at all in most sims, only slightly better than P3D. That's because multi-million dollar simulators usually serve another purpose than most people's home simulator.

6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I prefer traditional broadcasters to streaming services. Sky and BT. No Netflix or Amazon Prime in this house. Your internet goes down and bang! No flight sim, no TV. That's progress? Hmmm

This "if internet doesn't work, MSFS doesn't work" seems to be a very strong myth thas has no end to it. There are many arguments against MSFS but this one is simply 100% invalid. Just because scenery data can be streamed doesn't mean it has to be. Already-streamed scenery is cached locally and can be used over and over again. If it's missing, yes the scenery will not look as good. This does absolutely not mean that the sim is unusable. And there is nothing, absolutely nothing, preventing you or any 3rd party developer to create sceneries that is installed locally just as with the MS sim branch for the past 20 years. It's just that we're in 2021 now and installing gigabytes of world data locally that is pretty much already obsolete when installing it, isn't really the best way to do it if you want to keep up with technology.

Saying that MSFS is more dependant on internet than any other sim is also mostly false because of all the 3rd party addons. My MSFS starts and runs fine without internet, I'm just losing features that depends on real-time data (e.g. weather and atc). My P3D installation on the other hand, barely starts. I have a ton of addons that pretty much demands a working internet connection and I would just sit in my sim clicking on error messages all day long if I had no internet connection. Just look at the reactions every time there is an outage on the REX/ORBX/whatever servers or some license activation service. People go crazy, saying that their sim (that is'nt internet-dependant) doesn't work anymore.

I actually find it quite funny that the same people who say that MSFS is useless because it requires an internet connection (which it doesn't) are often the same people who say that it's absolutely vital to their sim experience that they use Vatsim, real-time weather, real-world AI, and other services and data requiring an active internet connection.