2 hours ago, TASCHMANN said:

Not shouting (that would be all caps) just using standard English to emphasize words.  Perhaps we need to keep posting until they gain some respect for the amount of time these "updates" are costing us.

 

2 hours ago, scotchegg said:

No need to shout, especially when the content adds nothing to what is already posted multiple times around the forum.

Okay, both of you retreat to your corners!

9 hours ago, TASCHMANN said:

I wonder how many will be willing to stay on this merry-go-round for five years.  Can you imagine the number of hours of your life that will be spent in the usual "search, tweak and wait" game.  There is simply no payoff for the effort when you plan to spend an hour or two flying and then encounter the "issue of the day" and spend 3 or 4 hours searching for a solution only to find there isn't one.

Couldn't agree more with all your comments Taschmann... it's getting to the point of being a waste of time which would be acceptable for a freeware sim but we've all paid for this product only to be treated like guinea pigs.

10 hours ago, Mace said:

I've been around sims for a looong time 

Me too, 40-odd years, and I never ever had a sim (or any game) updated 13 times in 15 months including 7 core  half-baked updates. I welcome progress but progress and brownian motion are two different things entirely  😄 !  

I have spend the last few days at finding the way to overcome the stutters, understand the new weird behaviour of some of my aircraft, rebuilding binding maps and trying to find places to fly where I shouldn't see the new ugly clouds in LW.

Polishing updates, spacing them reasonably is not abandonware. The MS marketing policy for this product is crazy.  

 Let the Asobo team work and take their time to do their best instead of imposing them to push broken updates, put some bucks in QC and... let us play this great sim !

10 hours ago, Mace said:

wAbandonware isn't something we want to see. 

It's already happening (on the Free market that is)

11 hours ago, TASCHMANN said:

I wonder how many will be willing to stay on this merry-go-round for five years.  Can you imagine the number of hours of your life that will be spent in the usual "search, tweak and wait" game.  There is simply no payoff for the effort when you plan to spend an hour or two flying and then encounter the "issue of the day" and spend 3 or 4 hours searching for a solution only to find there isn't one.

I prefer to count the number of hours I already enjoyed this game, and still enjoy even after this SU7. Yesterday I had a great but nasty experience discovering the Carenado C170 doesn't have pitot heat (which the real aircraft also didn't have) which really made my flight into IFR conditions more eventful than I expected and liked. Instead of a relaxing flight I found myself meandering between menacing clouds having to work to stay in the air.

It sometimes does feel we are all flying an early access title, certainly after a new SU but I have been flying sims since the early 90's and remember that every title was great but also came with a lot of frustration about things that did not work, or only partly.

the difference this time is that in the past we did not get updates so we learned to live with the shortcomings of these sims. This time, Asobo is at least trying to iron the bugs out. Sometimes they succeed which makes us happy. Often they only succeed partly which makes us to rant about it.

Edited November 22, 20214 yr by orchestra_nl
grammar

8 minutes ago, orchestra_nl said:

I prefer to count the number of hours I already enjoyed this game, and still enjoy even after this SU7. Yesterday I had a great but nasty experience discovering the Carenado C170 doesn't have pitot heat (which the real aircraft also didn't have) which really made my flight into IFR conditions eventful. Most, if not all third party aircraft still work exepct with DX12.

It sometimes does feel we are all flying an early access title, certainly after a new SU but I have been flying sims since the early 90's and remember that every title was great but also came with a lot of frustration about things that did not work, or only partly.

the difference this time is that in the past we did not get updates so we learned to live with the shortcomings of these sims. This time, Asobo is at least trying to iron the bugs out. Sometimes they succeed which makes us happy. Often they only succeed partly which makes us to rant about it.

Totally with this.. I was actually going to ask..  which aircraft are no longer working after SU7 on DX11  as all my add-ons seem to be fine.

Graham

59 minutes ago, orchestra_nl said:

I prefer to count the number of hours I already enjoyed this game,

You make a good point. It is not a black and white picture. This sim, as it is now, brings a tremendous flying experience. Fly and explore.

But we also have to tell MS that enough is enough. 

SU7 is a SU5 redux for many. This is not a fatality. The Asobo team is obviously made of good and bright engineers. Goodness, Neumann should let them work instead of pushing this kind of stuff for reasons we all understand and have nothing to do with our contentment.

Looking back at the sim in its early times , and putting aside the regional updates, were the 7 SU  worth the trouble ? 

Edited November 22, 20214 yr by Dominique_K

12 hours ago, Isaiah53six said:

does anyone else have issues with the flaps on the f-18 randomly retracting/extending?

Yes, but I thought they were automatic?  Part of the fly-by -wire system?

So now we know how it feels to be a beta tester,whether  we want to be or not. 

4 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

Yes, but I thought they were automatic?  Part of the fly-by -wire system?

yep, auto-flaps on the real bird. 

13 hours ago, Cognita said:

This is basically how I feel about it. Asobo has said from the beginning that they were going to be actively developing the sim. Robert Randazzo recently wrote that Asobo's roadmap is highly ambitious. This is not a mature, stable software platform.  It is still going through teething pains and it is under the pressures of continual development, fueled somewhat by a myriad of conflicting expectations and desires. We have been at this for nearly a year and a half and I think this is how it is going to be -- messy. But, I have never enjoyed a simulator as much. 

Words of wisdom as they align with reality so well.  I'm super thankful MS/Asobo didn't decide to wait until the sim was fully mature I've had a blast with it despite its foibles and it's so great to see the kind of dedication to continual and aggressive development.  Never in the history of flight sims has the pace and scope of development been so robust and there is no hint of a slow down save Jorg said in a recent interview the goals for 2022 are stability while retaining commitment to the 10-year project timeline.  Harken back to P3D days, built on decades of FSX, where to go from V1 which offered almost nothing over FSX for $200 to V2 THREE YEARS LATER (that's another $200 please, or $50 if you were okay misrepresenting yourself) which was mostly an updated rendering engine.  TWO MORE YEARS later you got V3 for another $200/$50 which mostly offered resources to simulator platforms with almost nothing for desktop simmers.  TWO MORE YEARS later you got the 64-bit platform to end the heinous OOM's people were frequently plagued by, that's another $200 please.  And in 2010 LM started w/ a very complete SDK already, essentially, save their additions for their commercial market in large part.   It's appalling to see how little they did with some of the basics in P3D, like the flight planner and it's heinous map circa 2000.  And as everyone knows here all planeware and scenery came from 3rd parties for hundreds and hundreds of $$ as the scenery and default planes with nothing short of garbage thru its entire 12y history, and still is.  I'm flying the lovely B787-10 HD this very moment, and often use the default and slightly modded TBM and Citation L, and CJ4, all of which are vastly better than anything out of the P3D.

It help to put the whole thing in context lest you not see the forest for the trees.

 

15 hours ago, Isaiah53six said:

does anyone else have issues with the flaps on the f-18 randomly retracting/extending?

That’s not a bug. That’s an actual feature on the F-18.

Edited November 22, 20214 yr by Tuskin38

Many of the planes that have been cited as working well are the result of the talent and hard work of the community...not Ms/Asobo  in providing the necessary modifications for free.    Can you imagine what this sim would look like without those mods?

I respectfully disagree with those who try to make the case that MSFS is no different from other sims during development.   I believe MSFS is unique in the amount of time and frustration it has required of users and the number and significance of the inoperative and broken features that disappear and reappear with stunning frequency.

The difference is that the other titles were and continue to be far more stable than MSFS at all stages of development.  My point is that without a modicum of stability there is little enjoyment.  It's like trying to live in a beautiful house that is about 60% finished. 

I think it is important to continuously point out that this is not acceptable.  There is no hope for stability in the future unless we expect it.

So again I ask.. what planes are not working as a direct result of SU7 on DX11  which is what this thread is about?

Graham

45 minutes ago, TASCHMANN said:

Can you imagine what this sim would look like without those mods?

Yes I sure can--it would be 99.2% of what it is w/o those mods.   Someone like Heavy Division takes a largely complete 787-10, tweaks a couple of things, then gets all the accolades whereas the real developer gets trashed by the ungrateful who can't see the forest for the trees.