4 hours ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

Someday.

For about the cost of a high end PC you can buy one of these bad boys, along w/ VR will get you as close as you can at a price point within reach for the obsessed:

21 minutes ago, Noel said:

For about the cost of a high end PC you can buy one of these bad boys, along w/ VR will get you as close as you can at a price point within reach for the obsessed:

But you are secure in the knowledge that even if you nosedive into the ground you just press a button or two and start over.  No fear factor.  No worries.  No listening for an out of place sound.  No matter how severe you walk away from every crash.

The only real emersion is actually leaving the ground.

Noel

14 hours ago, birdguy said:

No fear factor.

Yes but that's not all it's cracked up to be, pardon the pun!

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Yes but that's not all it's cracked up to be,

Part of the thrill of flying, and would guess driving motorcycles, is the fear factor.  Some of us do seek out dangerous sports like rock climbing, sky diving, base jumping, hang gliding, flying general aviation aircraft and motorcycles because there is an element of fear involved.  Yes, it is all it's cracked up to be and conquering it is the satisfaction you get. 

A couple of times I had more than a bit of fear.

Once while flying with my wife and another couple over Canyonlands in southern Utah I became lost.  It all looks the same from several thousand feet in the sky.  Especially over what they call The Maze.  That fear that is almost unconscious suddenly rose to the surface for a few seconds.  But I got out my chart and tune the VOR to Grand Junction and got a bearing.  Then I tuned in the Hanksville VOR and got another bearing.  Where they crossed was my position and I was just a few minutes southwest of the Canyonlands airport.

Just a few years ago while I was still flying here I took my next door neighbor flying.

I was gong through the checklist in a Cessna 152 and remembered I had left my clipboard and chart on the FBO counter.  I climbed out of the plane and ran back and got it.  I started the engine and called ground for taxi instructions and when I got to the runway intersection I called the tower for permission to take off.

As soon as I started climbing I heard a terrible knocking sound from the back of the fuselage.  I didn't declare an emergency but I told the tower I had to land immediately.  He said to pick any runway.

I landed and as soon as I slowed down the knocking stopped.  I taxied back to the FBO and got out of the cockpit to examine the airplane.

It was then that I realized I had forgotten to fasten my seatbelt when I came with the charts.  The buckle side of the seat belt was hanging out the door and when I was airborne it was banging against the side of the fuselage in the slipstream.

There's always the possibility that something might go wrong through a pilot error or a mechanical malfunction and you can't just pull over to the side of the road and stop.

Noel

 

Another fear factor story.  I posted this here in 2017.

I wrote up this flying incident I had.  Kinda scary for a while.  It was published in the September 1995 issue of Private Pilot.

JUST AVERAGE

The strobe reflection from the clouds was lighting up the cockpit, and I couldn’t see the ground. I was a 70 hour private pilot building time for my commercial certificate. I was suddenly alone, at night, in IFR conditions.

I’d picked up the keys to the Cherokee during my lunch hour. This evening I was going to get in another hour of solo night flying. It was dusk when I took off from Sky Ranch just east of Denver’s old Stapleton Airport. The plane needed fuel so I made the short hop to Stapleton to tank up at the Beech facility. By the time the tanks were topped off and I was ready to taxi it was dark.

I felt somewhat important as I taxied by the 737s and DC-10s on the ramp and made my way to runway 35L. As soon as I was airborne I made a left turn and climbed to the west following Interstate 70. At 7,000 feet MSL (about 1500 feet AGL) I turned south and decided to go to Arapahoe County Airport for a touch and go. I was cruising over south Denver at 8500 feet MSL when suddenly the lights went out — not mine, but lights of the city below me. I was buried in cloud.

The skies were clear earlier that evening and in my haste to get airborne I neglected to check the weather. Now I was in IFR conditions and I didn’t know what to do. I had a few sessions under the hood with my instructor, finding the VOR and recovering from unusual attitudes, but I certainly wasn’t an instrumented rated pilot.

I continued flying for a few minutes but no breaks appeared. I concentrated on the artificial horizon and maintaining altitude, but I was getting worried. Then I remembered something I had done with my instructor a month or so ago. We were in the practice area and I was under the hood recovering from unusual attitudes. He picked up the mike and asked for a practice ground controlled approach (GCA) to the Buckley National Guard Base. I flew that approach under the hood until we were about 100 feet from the runway. Then my instructor took the controls and called off the approach.

Finding myself stuck in the clouds I picked up the mike.

"Denver approach this is Cherokee 38D. Request a practice GCA approach to Buckely."

"Cherokee 38D say your position."

"38D is about 10 miles south of Stapleton at 8500 feet."

"38D make a left turn." I started a two minute left turn.

Denver Approach came back. "38D turn to heading 095 and stand by."

"38D turning 095."

A few minutes later the controller came back on the air. "Cherokee 38D contact Buckley GCA."

I acknowledged and switched the radio to the Buckley GCA frequency.

"Buckley GCA this is Cherokee 38D heading 095 at 8500 feet. Request a practice GCA approach.

The GCA controller identified my airplane and started to guide me in. As soon as he positioned me on the glideslope he started talking me down.

"Cherokee 38D do not acknowledge any more commands. On glideslope, on course."

I kept the wings level and bobbed up and down along the glideslope, constantly making throttle adjustments and slight course corrections as the controller talked to me. I really wasn’t very good at this. The controller must have thought I was the sloppiest pilot in the world. I hoped I wouldn’t have to land at Buckley; that probably would have meant my license. "God," I thought, "please let the ceiling be above minimums."

At 6500 feet MSL I came out of the clouds and saw that big runway ahead of me. To the west I could see the Denver skyline and the lights of city reflecting from the bottom of the cloud layer. Sky Ranch was just a hop, skip, and jump from Buckley. I quickly thanked the controller and broke off the approach.

A few minutes later I was on the ground at Sky Ranch. I parked the airplane, shut it down, and just sat there for a few minutes. I didn’t know whether to be proud of myself for getting out of a potentially dangerous situation or ashamed of myself for not the checking the weather before I took off.

My instructor called it about right when I told him of the incident.

He said, "Not checking the weather was stupid; the practice GCA approach was smart. I guess that averages out to just average."

Noel

 

Perhaps we can add something to be genuinely fearful of when operating your flight sim of choice, to better approximate reality real pilots face.  How about this:  when you make a fundamentally error to not follow the checklist a direct withdrawal comes out of your checking account to the 'Victims of Airline Crash Fund', with the amount per event commensurate with the impact the error might make.  Then, if you actually crash your plane (and no fair stopping the flight ever to check something you forgot to check!) you get 120V shock delivered thru your full motion simulator up your spine AND code is sent to your PC to destroy components thru a heinous virus assault.  Sounds like fun can't wait!! 

23 hours ago, birdguy said:

it has become mandatory to drop whatever you're doing, even in midsentence with someone, and say, "I've gotta take this".

Noel, the single greatest feature of my reasonably-smart phone is the ability to swipe down on the screen to reject an incoming call.  If I don't recognize the caller's number while I'm driving I simply reject the call...

On 12/23/2021 at 4:26 PM, Noel said:

If this is too inflammatory just take it down no worries.  Just curious how this might shake out, and then duplicate it for non RW pilot simmers.

I might be wrong but I believe the poll is inherently flawed because there could be a bias in the results solely due to the type of the simulators most often used by the avsim community members, compared to the type of simulators most often used by the x-plane.org community members for example. Would you consider opening the same poll on x-plane.org forums for the sake of cross-checking this?

 

1 minute ago, RXP said:

I might be wrong but I believe the poll is inherently flawed because there could be a bias in the results solely due to the type of the simulators most often used by the avsim community members, compared to the type of simulators most often used by the x-plane.org community members for example. Would you consider opening the same poll on x-plane.org forums for the sake of cross-checking this?

 

I just did Jean-Luc, yes the poll is flawed, unscientific, and just fun to see.  I really expected more of a showing from XP users, and even P3D users because many might not visit Hangar Chat, and the poll closes in a few weeks.  With only 35 respondants I found that hard to believe so repost the invite in the FSX/P3D/MSFS/XP subforums.

On 12/26/2021 at 2:46 PM, birdguy said:

When I fly I am just getting into the cockpit, starting up, taxiing to the runway, and taking off to my destination.  VFR all the way.  No procedures.  No radios.  Just the GPS for navigation. 

No disrespect Noel but that sounds boring. At that point you might as just watch someone else fly in a video of them using the sim. Hopefully at least you hand fly the plane and dont just use auto pilot. I also disagree about the fear of the sim compared to RL in some degree. I fly on PilotEdge so right off the bat I have a controller watching me and the last thing one wants to have happen to them is being called out over the radio for not being on top of their game.

I also only fly with planes like A2A or REP or use addons like FSPassengers and/or OnAir all which simulate wear and tear and offer a level of random failure allowing each flight to take a diversion due to a MX or complete failure. Yeah its not life or death but if you sim by the idea that each flight is a training/proficiency flight and dont use pause or cheats in that direction, then yeah theres an added layer of awareness to the flight.

I also use simming to keep me current on the tools I do use in RW flying like my iPad Garmin Pilot App. I keep my flights short and sometimes I go old school VOR navigation in VR with no GPS or moving maps or will load up a complicated IFR flight and hand fly it.

I earned my solo at 3.4 hours on my second day of lessons. On the 3rd day I did my night XC. I did my big 150nm XC on my 6th flight lesson at 12.7 hours. My PPL at 40.3 and when I did my 1st IFR lesson I flew real IMC at almost minimums in Class C KPWM with 500' ceiling and 1 1/2mile viz. This was all possible because of using the sim to not immerse the "feel" of flying but to focus on great flow building and CRM skills while using every aspect to maintain proficiency. 

Ever since I started my RW lessons and especially after I earned my PPL, I refuse to use the sim except only to be 100% focused that it was a real flight and there is no "whoops" moments allowed or its just a game mindset. 

After 62 motorcycles, 50 years of riding and 600k miles, I had to give it up, a year ago, due to balance problems (I'm 83). 

Bruce

Edited December 31, 20214 yr by brucets
Video links didn't work

@brucets

A fine effort sir 👍 

On 12/28/2021 at 2:34 AM, birdguy said:

But you are secure in the knowledge that even if you nosedive into the ground you just press a button or two and start over.  No fear factor.  No worries.  No listening for an out of place sound.  No matter how severe you walk away from every crash.

The only real emersion is actually leaving the ground.

Noel

Perhaps, but the first time I took off in MSFS and found myself suddenly in IFR conditions I felt real panic. Not a RW pilot so I cannot compare to the real thing but it was quite an experience.

3 hours ago, Ident said:

I earned my solo at 3.4 hours on my second day of lessons. On the 3rd day I did my night XC

I really really hope this was a remote strip and not in controlled airspace shared with commercial traffic. I don't care what you think, at 3.4 hrs you are not a proficient pilot to deal with any kind of abnormals. No matter how much simming you have prior. Holy cow. Stalls/spin avoidance? Outfield recog for emergency landing?  And then night time XC (solo?) On 3rd lesson? That is borderline criminal and dangerous to send a green rookie with extremely little experience into night VFR (the most dangerous flying basically). 

It's not safe. Which is what anything in aviation should strive for. Again it might work in NowheresVille, Wyoming, but in busy airspace you are exposing other air crews of unnecessary danger. 

5 hours ago, Noel said:

I just did Jean-Luc, yes the poll is flawed, unscientific, and just fun to see.  I really expected more of a showing from XP users, and even P3D users because many might not visit Hangar Chat, and the poll closes in a few weeks.  With only 35 respondants I found that hard to believe so repost the invite in the FSX/P3D/MSFS/XP subforums.

There's not a lot of XP users here.  You should post this on the Org (the main xp forums site)