I'm massively speculating here, but came across this on the MSFS 3rd-party Aircraft sub-forum: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/upcoming-pmdg-737-discussion/423051/1366?u=lwtxb where a beta-tester of a pending aircraft speaks glowingly about it, quite some praise here from him about it being above PMDG/FSL/Majestic and the "highest standard of simulation seen yet"... wonder if its' the Fenix A320 :) Even if it's not I'm now quite intrigued as to which bird this is!

Quote

Unfortunately I can’t, it takes every ounce in me to not say anything because it’s absolutely unbelievable! It’s a very popular aircraft and done to possibly the highest of standard simulation has seen yet. Above PMDG, majestic software, fslabs etc… and I praise the life out of the majestic software q400 it’s one of my all time favourites… but what is coming will absolutely floor you all in amazement. I’m hoping soon enough we can lift the full curtain

Edited April 23, 20224 yr by lwt1971

4 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

I'm massively speculating here, but came across this on the MSFS 3rd-party Aircraft sub-forum: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/upcoming-pmdg-737-discussion/423051/1366?u=lwtxb where a beta-tester of a pending aircraft speaks glowingly about it, quite some claims here about it being above PMDG/FSL/Majestic and the "highest standard of simulation seen yet"... wonder if its' the Fenix A320 🙂 Even it's not I'm now quite intrigued as to which bird this is

Heh, more hype for the Fenix.

FYI, for anybody wondering why there is so much hype for the Fenix A320, as @lwt1971 mentioned, it's because the Fenix A320 is built on top of ProSim. Aamir, the leader of the Fenix team, already confirmed that the Fenix A320 is using ProSim, although he didn't say in detail how ProSim is being used.  The assumption is, ProSim is being run in some external process.  That's why the Fenix A320 probably won't appear for the XBox, because XBox has a sandbox that may not allow external processes like ProSim to be run.

ProSim already has much of the systems logic for the A320 working.  By using ProSim, the Fenix team saved a lot of time developing the systems logic for the A320, and in theory, are able to make the Fenix A320 one of the most complex airliners ever released for a home market flight simulator. Notice I said "in theory."  Of course, the Fenix A320 still has to be released, to prove it really is that complex. But in theory anyways, ProSim is allowing the Fenix team to make what could potentially be one of the most complex airliners.  Now we will see if it lives up to its hype.

so does this mean people will have to buy ProSim to use the fenix?

1 minute ago, micstatic said:

so does this mean people will have to buy ProSim to use the fenix?

I highly doubt it.  I'm sure they secured some sort of agreement with PS.

1 hour ago, micstatic said:

so does this mean people will have to buy ProSim to use the fenix?

No, Fenix have some sort of licensing agreement with Prosim, but nothing that the end-user has to do. The aircraft code will include an adopted (and likely modified/extended) version of ProSim, and as far we're concerned we install the aircraft and the component of that install that runs as an external process outside of MSFS on Windows will be the one that contains ProSim code within it.

Aamir posted this a while back on their discord:
Hey @everyone. We've seen the article posted here and elsewhere, whilst a lot of the assumptions made have started to tail into baseless speculation, we do indeed have a license with ProSim to utilise and modify elements of their simulation software, and are building upon that to bring something much more desktop-oriented and more in line with what PC simmers are used to. By default we respect the privacy of our legal agreements and avoid discussing the various licensing agreements we have unless it functionally affects the future viability of the product (e.g. navdata etc). Happy to answer further questions in #ask-us  within reason!

 

 

Edited April 23, 20224 yr by lwt1971

22 hours ago, Ridvan Celik said:

That's true too, even more so if FBW decides to drop the CEO airframe ha! (pretty sure Fenix is doing the CEO)?

We aren't working on a CEO anytime soon. Needless to say, we are working on handcrafting each system on the NEO to perfection as it can be seen through our dev updates, and when close to completion, the A32NX would be one of, if not the most complex aircraft add-ons, not being tied by the limitations of an external service such as Prosim, which has its fair share of bugs.

32 minutes ago, sidnov said:

We aren't working on a CEO anytime soon. Needless to say, we are working on handcrafting each system on the NEO to perfection as it can be seen through our dev updates, and when close to completion, the A32NX would be one of, if not the most complex aircraft add-ons, not being tied by the limitations of an external service such as Prosim, which has its fair share of bugs.

Anytime soon or at all 😏 Yeah that’s understandable. There’s definitely room for two airbuses, FBW has raised the bar and let’s see what Fenix brings for the CEO.

 

Yeah look I have read into pro sim and have heard of the bugs but what software doesn’t? I’m sure they’ll figure it out before release…. Or in this day n age after release.
 

I think people like myself coming from the FSL Bus lines have that extra high bar that we need fulfilled. So far FBW is heading that way…. Can’t say much  about Fenix since it’s not released… but they look to be on that path too. 
 

The more high quality add ons the better I say, we finally have a flight sim with a modern graphic engine, a world rendered with sat images and a developing and promising flight model.. we can finally enjoy these planes in all their glory. 

1 hour ago, sidnov said:

We aren't working on a CEO anytime soon. Needless to say, we are working on handcrafting each system on the NEO to perfection as it can be seen through our dev updates, and when close to completion, the A32NX would be one of, if not the most complex aircraft add-ons, not being tied by the limitations of an external service such as Prosim, which has its fair share of bugs.

I wonder if this is what is taking Fenix so long.  Their whole architecture is built on top of ProSim.  If ProSim is inherently buggy, then the Fenix A320 will be inherently buggy, unless Fenix fixes all the issues. Based on what Aamir wrote, they have permission to modify the ProSim code.  Still, that’s a lot of work to fix the ProSim code if there are bugs in there that end up in the Fenix A320 behaviour.

13 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

I'm massively speculating here, but came across this on the MSFS 3rd-party Aircraft sub-forum: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/upcoming-pmdg-737-discussion/423051/1366?u=lwtxb where a beta-tester of a pending aircraft speaks glowingly about it, quite some praise here from him about it being above PMDG/FSL/Majestic and the "highest standard of simulation seen yet"... wonder if its' the Fenix A320 🙂 Even if it's not I'm now quite intrigued as to which bird this is!

He‘s probably talking about the upcoming CaptainSim 767-300 😉

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

I wonder if this is what is taking Fenix so long.  Their whole architecture is built on top of ProSim.  If ProSim is inherently buggy, then the Fenix A320 will be inherently buggy, unless Fenix fixes all the issues. Based on what Aamir wrote, they have permission to modify the ProSim code.  Still, that’s a lot of work to fix the ProSim code if there are bugs in there that end up in the Fenix A320 behaviour.

So if you watch the older videos, you'll see that you pretty much nailed it. ProSim is very very good - they rebuilt the actual software that works behind the scenes on the FMGS, so inputs and outputs will take the same amount of time and have the same errors/quirks as the real thing. They have their own fonts though, which if you look at Fenix, they've started to change. From what type rated pilots have said on their discord, ProSim also has a few quirks that were shown in Fenix's brake pressure video, but based on the responses from KatiePilot and others on the team, all of them will be fixed.

And so not only has Fenix worked to perfect ProSim, they've also been adding their own magic to the airbus: Like the signal strength of GPS satellites or ambient cabin heat based on the number of passengers. I'm willing to bet BETA is taking so long because there's no way all of that new code plays well with each other on the first try.

13 hours ago, micstatic said:

so does this mean people will have to buy ProSim to use the fenix?

No chance of that.

Fenix looks really good, but I don’t think people are going to want to pay $1000 and another $150 per year just so they can use another addon!

If the Prosim talk is true (edit: it is), it just means they’ve licensed some of the systems. The ProSim AR guys are very, very good at that stuff.

Edited April 24, 20224 yr by OzWhitey

1 hour ago, Fiorentoni said:

He‘s probably talking about the upcoming CaptainSim 767-300 😉

Nah, I know this guy, he’s a beta tester on the Captain Sim C-130.

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

I wonder if this is what is taking Fenix so long.  Their whole architecture is built on top of ProSim.  If ProSim is inherently buggy, then the Fenix A320 will be inherently buggy, unless Fenix fixes all the issues. Based on what Aamir wrote, they have permission to modify the ProSim code.  Still, that’s a lot of work to fix the ProSim code if there are bugs in there that end up in the Fenix A320 behaviour.

ProSim is not particularly buggy imho, it’s more that the people that use it have extremely high expectations for what is increasingly marketed as a professional product. 

I have the 737 ProSim module rather than the A320, but I’m pretty impressed with the quality of the product.

 

33 minutes ago, WestAir said:

 

And so not only has Fenix worked to perfect ProSim, they've also been adding their own magic to the airbus: Like the signal strength of GPS satellites or ambient cabin heat based on the number of passengers. I'm willing to bet BETA is taking so long because there's no way all of that new code plays well with each other on the first try.

As a user of ProSimA320 AFAIK these features have already been available for several years. 
 

From what I have been hearing I doubt Fenix has the complete ProSim system code.  Fenix implementation will apply more to the virtual flight deck, EFB, flight dynamic modelling and flight ambience sounds. Wouldn’t make sense to give their source code away (as others have mentioned) to a new developer. 

And yes ProSimA320 is buggy - I have been using it since it’s initial release more than 4 years ago and there are still outstanding bugs that need to be fixed. Hopefully with Fenix on board and the wider audience for the product the ProSim team can quickly address them. 

1 minute ago, OzWhitey said:

ProSim is not particularly buggy imho, it’s more that the people that use it have extremely high expectations for what is increasingly marketed as a professional product. 

I have the 737 ProSim module rather than the A320, but I’m pretty impressed with the quality of the product.

 

ProSim737 is a mature product and doesn’t have the major issues seen in their airbus avionics program.